GL1200 - low speed jello connection from grips to the front wheel

[MagnAndy]

Hi All,

I have searched and not found what I am looking for - likely a 'search term' thing. If the info is here, please point me in the right direction.

Here's my issue - when handling at very slow speed it feels like the connection from the hand grips to the front wheel is via bungee cord. On the side stand I can rock the bars then let them go and it's like a fat woman's ass - they slosh back and forth. I have compared to a local member's bike - same thing. It makes low speed handling FUGLY which is a crime for a scoot that flows at speed.

History: owned one year. Bike is loaded with extras by loving POs, and my PO seemed to be on top of the maintenance and was reasonably handy - so assume decent maintenance overall. I put new tires (shop installed) on it for certification (mech inspection in Ontario Canada) a year ago. It is my daily driver. I have done fork seals and used Honda's 20 weight fork oil. Felt the same immediately after the measured oil volumes went in. Spring lengths were in spec. No signs of obvious wear on the various sliders and bushings. Plan to use a bore gauge and micrometer on them this winter if I actually stop riding.

Can anybody suggest what the issue is here? I do have a left fork seal leak still and will check to see if I installed wrong way up.

My only current thought is worn bushings/sliders allow a rotational mismatch between the top (bars) and bottom (rubber) ends of the assembly. Bot, by this much?????

HELP please from the experienced 'Oldwingers with dirty fingernails. Thanks for your time.

 

[riff raff]

Do you have a fork brace? What are you running for tire pressure? :shock:

 

[MagnAndy]

Yes Brace - no cracks and torqued at all 4 corners. Tire pressure has no effect all the way from 32psi to 42 psi. Also, the trees are tight. axle seated and pinch bolts tight. I think I have covered most of the typical front end stuff.....bing - lightbulb :thanks: wheel bearings not checked yet.

 

[mcgovern61]

How much pressure in your front forks? My '82 is not "squishy" at all when I have 12lbs of air in there. No air and I better hang on for dear life! Plus when I am low on fork air, the front end gets unstable.

 

[joedrum]

its ibvious you need total fork upgrade ...the stock system were weak for the use of air to be used to firm up ...but springs are dead now id say ...i see proggressive springs in your future if you want good handleing ...honda went the wrong way in fork engineering for dresser big bikes for touring and suffered all the consicquences of bad move with spongy bikes that are hard to manuver...but with great springs and new seals that dont require air to be good enough the game changes instantly as wings are realy great handlers with ther low center of gravity

 

[OldWrench]

If all is well with your forks, and tires have you checked the swing arm, rear tire, rear shocks and of course all being secure and proper torque. Just a thought because I know if the back end has problems it can effect your handling and of course you will feel it more at low speed.

As already stated going with progressive springs can really make a big difference. I put new seals and progressive springs on my 83 and it was like climbing onto a new bike. One thing read the instructions on progressive springs, you don’t use as much fork oil.

 

[MagnAndy]

McG - I have 2 bars (12 psi I think) in the front - the max the display shows as allowable. AND it is stable for over a month now - despite that I have a slight oil bypass on the left fork. I did replace the seals and the tubes were smooth so PERHAPS I brain farted and got that seal in upside down - will check this winter. I suspect that my left oil level is low now but that should not affect this isue - the oil is for travel dampening and the jello is happening at constant fork position.

Chas, When I had the new tire installed at the beginning of this season I had to go back once I mounted the wheels (drove straight there) because the bike had a MAMOTH low speed shimmy - it was obvious that the tire was not installed correctly. The owner and I super inflated the tire and BANG! it seated. After that things seemed good - but this was like my second ride on the bike so I had no frame of reference. BUT this issue was obviously a twisted tire issue because the bike ran straight then did zig-zag and back to straight until zig-zag. What I have now is different - it is like the front wheel and the bars have about 1" of random movement between them at low speed. What I will do is mount my Contour to focus down on the tire and film at various speeds to see of there is something visible happening with the tire. But I doubt it.

JoeD, About how much for progressive springs and any recommendations about a manufacturer? I know zip about them. Christmas is coming so perhaps my ever lovin' will take a broad hint. She's pretty good that way (and a BUNCH OF OTHER WAYS TOO!!!!). One thing I am not clear on is how springs (which are a dynamic component related to fork extension) affect what is an issue with static fork extension but having torsional variations that don't affect springs. And to be clear, I'm not disputing or challenging - just trying to learn.

BTW - I love throwing this big bike around the CG is sooooo low compared to my 1985 VF750C-E Magna - the bike is more than 1/3 heavier but twice as easy to balance.

What experience or thoughts does anybody have about putting in a longer spacer an boosting the spring preload that way??? Although I am NOT looking forward to trying to get the damn caps on with even MORE force being required!!!!

 

[joedrum]

the spacer works sort of but not like new progressive springs witch are have thicker steel in them ...the reality is the spacer dosnt make the sprongs stouter just move tension witch dose help when funds are a issue

 

[n2ppn]

Have you inspected your triple trees/clamps?? It almost sounds like you have a displacement between your fork tubes that allows them to move which causes the jello effect??

Just a thought...

Rich

 

[Omega Man]

Also...try Dynabeads, they really improved my slow speed handling(300K bike), they also keep your tires in perfect balance the life of the tire. Those weights installed by the tire guys only keep the tires balanced so long.

I realize this has nothing to do with the handlebars but thems my $0.02

~O~

 

[slabghost]

I still wonder if it might be that tire. Is there anyone that will let you borrow a front wheel and tire? If the problem disappears then you'll know.

 

[MagnAndy]

The only other 'Oldwing rider I know has exactly the same issue on his bike - that's why we met through here!

I can actually feel the issue stopped if I jiggle the bars left and right several times - it is like the wheel lags behind the bars a bit and when I stop jiggling the bars the wheel still has one jiggle left. Bizzare - have never felt it on a bike before.

 

[Anonymous]

Andy when you had your front tire off is it possible that you have the forks spread too far apart? Did you use the feeler guage in the kit?

 

[mcgovern61]

That is very strange! The handlebars are directly in line with the forks? Any movement should be direct....no lag or squish?? If you feel it, you should be able to see something. Have someone else work the handlebars back and forth while you view each component and see if you can see any movement.

 

[slabghost]

Have you removed the fairing and inspected the triple clamps closely? That would worry me. Look for any cracks or loose bolts.

 

[MagnAndy]

Andy when you had your front tire off is it possible that you have the forks spread too far apart? Did you use the feeler guage in the kit?

Oh oh - if I answer "what kit?" does that answer you? I just did up the top end then set the forks down on the axle slightly and did up the clamps. I didn't see anything about chescking or setting the fork spacing in the manual?????

 

[n2ppn]

Another thought... that bike has the Comstar Wheels on it, right??
Have you inspected the wheel for any damage to it including loose rivets??
Comstars were supposed to "feel" like spoke wheels which do have a small amount of "flex" to them as the wheel is wiggled while it turns.. it helps to absorb deflections in the wheel's tracking on uneven road surfaces...


Oh and "the kit" is the OEM tool kit that came with the bike... it has a feeler gauge set in it that is used for one thing to set the clearances for the front forks to the axles... I will look for the page in the shop manual that shows it...

Read chapter 14 in the service manual, it is all about the wheels....(and it shows where to use the feeler gauge)
https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/gallery/album.php?album_id=96


Rich

 

[Anonymous]

Andy when you had your front tire off is it possible that you have the forks spread too far apart? Did you use the feeler guage in the kit?

Oh oh - if I answer "what kit?" does that answer you? I just did up the top end then set the forks down on the axle slightly and did up the clamps. I didn't see anything about chescking or setting the fork spacing in the manual?????

The tool kit honda sends with each bike includes a shim for setting up your front wheel spacing - the way I know is I was riding with the Guy I was telling you about and he noticed it (Squeeking subtly) on the road - we went back and he set it up right - no problems since

My problem was too tight I am wondering if yours is too loose

 

[MagnAndy]

I have found the line in my manual that references the space check - it is now highlited! I will do a check as it is now. Thanks guys.

 

[MagnAndy]

Update: Here is what I just finished doing and verifying
1) verified the caliper-bracket to disk gap was over 0.028" - feeler gauges were loose (so much so that I was wondering if I was checking the right place - no pictures in my manual)
2) axle holders are on with arrows forward, no gap at front bolts, rears torqued to 18 ft-lbs
3) front tire is as spec'd 130/90-16 67H
4) removed fork brace (bolts were at 10-15 ft-lbs)
5) checked tripple tree (TT) bolt torques - they were as spec'd
6) loosened TT bolts with jack under bike & front wheel clear
7) unable to find torque listing anywhere for the front brace - google only came up with lots of people asking about it
8) blue lok-tite and torqued brace bolts to 23 ft-lbs
9) re-torqued TT bolts to 16 ft-lbs lower and 8 ft-lbs upper
10) spun the front tire and watched the tread lines - if there is any deviation it can't be more than about 0.010" side to side
11) held ballpoint pen on the fork touching the side of the rim and spun the wheel - the wheel is very slightly out of true, again I estimate less than 0.010"
12) reassembled the removed bits and removed from the stand

I went around the block doing low speed tight zig-zags and it seems to be very much improved. To early to pronounce it totally cleared up but I should know better after a few days of the riding that I do and always experience the jello effect.

Thanks again all for your help.