Is global warming a scam?

[ekvh]

NASA just released space photos of the region in China affected most by the Covid19 virus. It does show a visible photographic difference in air quality. Not just a little. However, what does a picture tells us? For all I know, it could be a change in the weather.

 

[DaveKamp]

Here's one that's fairly good:

https://aqicn.org/map/


It is updated in more-or-less 'real time'. PM2.5 means particulate matter 2.5 micrometers and smaller (Dust). PM 10 is 10 micrometers and smaller.

The others are gaseous compounds frequently associated with pollution circumstances.

The 'gotcha' here, is that this data comes from an array of sensors that are generally unrelated. They take readings, but they're not identical in placement, nor in detailed operation. Some are inside buildings, and some are on exterior structures... so the readings are very circumstancial.

Compare China, India, and the Middle East to USA, Britain, and Europe... why don't desert areas (prone to dust storms) and high mountain forest fire areas indicated higher? Perhaps because there's no monitors out there?

One satellite image posted a week or two ago showed what was identified as an unusual sulphur dioxide cloud over Wuxhan... and suggested that sulphur dioxide was produced from burning bodies, therefore, they're burning lots of bodies and therefore, many more people are dying than they suggested... Which is a very complex piece of lie-work. It was very well explained by this fellow: https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/f19uc8/debunking_the_burning_bodies_sulphur_sulfur/

 

[saganaga]

My position is that while the human contribution to the greenhouse effect is small, small changes can still be harmful.

There's the natural greenhouse effect, which is why earth isn't completely covered in ice. If our actions even change that by a few percent, that is a few degrees of warming.

To say humans can't be a factor seems to underestimate humans. All we have to do is tip the scale. We've roughly burned a trillion barrels of oil, give or take, within the last century. Hundreds of billions of tons of coal in the same time period. Seems like it could have an effect to me, and isotopic examination of carbon dioxide in the air is consistent with the idea that humans have increased the amount by about 1/3rd.

 

[DaveKamp]

While extracting stuff form the ground, and ejecting it into the air DOES present a suggestable path, It would hold more numeric ground to suggest that the mere presence of a growing amount of human beings burping beer and soda pop, would be attributable to the rise of CO2 concentration, than the release of fossil fuels.

Volcanic eruptions are by far a greater source of bad stuff, and from much deeper stores, and we cannot stop them. (gotta make them bumper stickers, darnit!)

Something most people don't realize... is that the most critical CONVERTER of CO2 is not trees and plants. CO2 is necessary for photosynthesis in plants, but the greatest CONVERTER of CO2 to (ultimately) O2, is algae and photorreactive plankton... but the creation of 02 is a 'side effect'.

Look back at the temperature and sunlight reports of 1645 through 1715:
https://wiki.iceagefarmer.com/wiki/History:_Extreme_Weather_during_the_Maunder_Minimum

And realize that photophosphorilization DEPENDS on having sunlight, on water, within a temperature range that phytoplankton are tolerant of.

A phytoplankton concentration metric would be a much more reliable suggestor, but recognize that one volcanic eruption yielding fair cloud cover over a pond will kill off an algae bloom.

It is an EXTREMELY complex system in which we live. When the magnitude of other very-well-measured variables are hundreds-of-orders-of-magnitude, the small-magnitude variation is not an accurate basis.

I'll suggest (and accept that in doing so, I'm tossing my 5th amendment right out the window) that there's enough antique tractors, electric generators, steam engines, and structural steel stockpiles at my farm to create a very measurable 'dent' in the local gauss. I have several other friends in this same circumstance, and we postulate that, if there were to be either a natural, or man-made EMP, that the inhabitants of the triangular area between us would likely never see the maelstrom to which the rest of the world were afflicted, which means, while those outside would be unable to leave their homes for months, we'd be watching re-runs of Hogan's Heroes whilst having pizza delivered. I'm not certain how I'd fuel my Goldwing, but I suspect that once the copper is at the right temperature, my Wife would be demanding that only HALF of it would get used for motor fuel, the rest would get bottled for human consumption...

By the way, an amusing (at least, to me) note was that amidst the aftermath of the 1859 Carrington Flare, telegraph systems (and their operators) took an incredible beating from high voltages being carried through their lines. Under today's circumstances, such an event would blow out basically every utility-powered switching power supply (your computer, TV, phone charger, network router, video camera... and god help those with battery-powered cars that're plugged in (immediately on fire). I expect that WHEN this happens again, the bush-people will be laughing at civilization.

And it struck me... If the Goldwing doesn't rule the roost, it's right up there, as being one of the most fuel-inefficient motorcycles on the planet. Are we really discussing environment here? That reminds me... I gotta scrub and do the refurb on this Starlight trailer... :moped:

 

[saganaga]

DaveKamp » Yesterday, 7:10 pm[/url]":yapu8zsj]
While extracting stuff form the ground, and ejecting it into the air DOES present a suggestable path, It would hold more numeric ground to suggest that the mere presence of a growing amount of human beings burping beer and soda pop, would be attributable to the rise of CO2 concentration, than the release of fossil fuels.

Volcanic eruptions are by far a greater source of bad stuff, and from much deeper stores, and we cannot stop them. (gotta make them bumper stickers, darnit!)

Volcanic eruptions should have no bias towards C12. While the CO2 increase shows a bias towards C12. That makes it unlikely for a geological process to be responsible. (Photosynthesis has an affinity toward C12, which shows up in all life forms and thus fossil fuels.)

Something most people don't realize... is that the most critical CONVERTER of CO2 is not trees and plants. CO2 is necessary for photosynthesis in plants, but the greatest CONVERTER of CO2 to (ultimately) O2, is algae and photorreactive plankton... but the creation of 02 is a 'side effect'.

Look back at the temperature and sunlight reports of 1645 through 1715:
https://wiki.iceagefarmer.com/wiki/History:_Extreme_Weather_during_the_Maunder_Minimum

And realize that photophosphorilization DEPENDS on having sunlight, on water, within a temperature range that phytoplankton are tolerant of.

Don't forget minerals - that's one of the suggestions to engineer a cooler climate, since minerals (specifically iron in most cases) seems to be the limit of phytoplanton in the open ocean.

It is an EXTREMELY complex system in which we live. When the magnitude of other very-well-measured variables are hundreds-of-orders-of-magnitude, the small-magnitude variation is not an accurate basis.

I'll suggest (and accept that in doing so, I'm tossing my 5th amendment right out the window) that there's enough antique tractors, electric generators, steam engines, and structural steel stockpiles at my farm to create a very measurable 'dent' in the local gauss. I have several other friends in this same circumstance, and we postulate that, if there were to be either a natural, or man-made EMP, that the inhabitants of the triangular area between us would likely never see the maelstrom to which the rest of the world were afflicted, which means, while those outside would be unable to leave their homes for months, we'd be watching re-runs of Hogan's Heroes whilst having pizza delivered. I'm not certain how I'd fuel my Goldwing, but I suspect that once the copper is at the right temperature, my Wife would be demanding that only HALF of it would get used for motor fuel, the rest would get bottled for human consumption...

By the way, an amusing (at least, to me) note was that amidst the aftermath of the 1859 Carrington Flare, telegraph systems (and their operators) took an incredible beating from high voltages being carried through their lines. Under today's circumstances, such an event would blow out basically every utility-powered switching power supply (your computer, TV, phone charger, network router, video camera... and god help those with battery-powered cars that're plugged in (immediately on fire). I expect that WHEN this happens again, the bush-people will be laughing at civilization.

And it struck me... If the Goldwing doesn't rule the roost, it's right up there, as being one of the most fuel-inefficient motorcycles on the planet. Are we really discussing environment here? That reminds me... I gotta scrub and do the refurb on this Starlight trailer... :moped:

My Goldwing gets a little over 40 mpg. Better than most new vehicles - average appears to be 25mpg. Old motorcycles aren't the problem.

I wouldn't like the end of civilization as we know it, especially with the JIT supply chains we seem to have adopted. That would get ugly fast, IMO.

 

[GTC@MSAC]

Do any of you remember the short 1969 film "The Lottery". Although the film is fictional, the event depicted therein were not. It does not seem to matter how modern and "civilized" a culture becomes, group mentality can be, and still is, very dangerous, and lethal. G.W. is just the latest political vehicle to control the masses and wield power over others. The Chesapeake Bay froze over in 1978, I went there, saw it, walked on it. According to the PTB, we were supposed to be living in igloos by now. Well, we aren't. The "Hole in the Ozone" was one of the first experimental "environmental crisis" that was used on the public for control, and the PTB found that the public responded as hoped, like ignorant sheep. What did we do to "fix the ozone"? Nothing; it wasn't broken to begin with, but now there are bigger and better things being used to control the public. Peak Oil? that one one was supposed to have happened 5-10 years ago.......still waiting. The great lakes were supposed to have dried up by now , too. What about the critically low water level at the Hoover Dam? Well, Commifornia residents have been stealing their fresh water from the East of the Sierras, and now the supply has simply not met the demand. In truth, the only crisis I am aware of is the blight known as overpopulation and piss-poor management of resources by large groups of people who have the power to do so. Mainstream Media has just become another tool of the PTB in their power struggle to control and artificially limit natural resources as a means of control the public in general. The rural population has always had more independence and control over their lives and culture than people in the cities, and the PTB have always seen this a threat to their power, mostly because it's historically accurate. American Pioneers were virtually impossible to control or manipulate by our colonial government, so they were given relatively inexpensive opportunities to purchase "charted wilderness" to develop at their own expense, and not the government's. Ever wonder why so many of us are descendants of Europeans? Things really have been overcrowded and have sucked there for centuries, and it isn't getting better. Our population here in the U.S. is somewhere around 327 million, or so, but elsewhere, in less space, Billions. North America is still a far better living environment, for many different reasons, than Europe or Asia, and they know it. Globalization is simply a new order attempt at Worldwide Communism, and if the PTB succeeds, it will make everyone equal, alright, equally poor. I'm not going to go into any details on any more of this, but to answer the question posted, YES, "Man-Made G.W." is a scam and a fraud crisis, and just the latest, greatest "public control method" being used against individual Liberty and Freedom.

On a lighter note, I am glad to be a part of an ever shrinking group of people who choose to re-use and recycle what a growing number of people are discarding as refuse....in fact....all of us here are part of that group, and wee should continue our individual efforts to do as we do, and "infect" more of our friends and family with the MBS habits that we enjoy, lol! Maybe if our society hadn't become so wasteful in our excesses, the rest of the world wouldn't be so uptight about things, but then you and I wouldn't have such an abundance of motor-bike hobbies, either.
I tell my friends and customers alike, to do as their conscience dictates, because they will anyway. As for me, I am not going to willingly capiltulate to any "Global Guilt Trip", regardless of how reckless or righteous others may choose to act. It has been said "money is the root of all evil" and I greatly disagree. IMO the worst things in our society have been "people with no productive skills and too much time on their hands with nothing productive to do" (AKA Bureaucrats, Tree Huggers, and Socialists)

 

[Ansimp]

GTC@MSAC » Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:50 pm[/url]":32p6qvsz]
Do any of you remember the short 1969 film "The Lottery". Although the film is fictional, the event depicted therein were not. It does not seem to matter how modern and "civilized" a culture becomes, group mentality can be, and still is, very dangerous, and lethal. G.W. is just the latest political vehicle to control the masses and wield power over others. The Chesapeake Bay froze over in 1978, I went there, saw it, walked on it. According to the PTB, we were supposed to be living in igloos by now. Well, we aren't. The "Hole in the Ozone" was one of the first experimental "environmental crisis" that was used on the public for control, and the PTB found that the public responded as hoped, like ignorant sheep. What did we do to "fix the ozone"? Nothing; it wasn't broken to begin with, but now there are bigger and better things being used to control the public. Peak Oil? that one one was supposed to have happened 5-10 years ago.......still waiting. The great lakes were supposed to have dried up by now , too. What about the critically low water level at the Hoover Dam? Well, Commifornia residents have been stealing their fresh water from the East of the Sierras, and now the supply has simply not met the demand. In truth, the only crisis I am aware of is the blight known as overpopulation and piss-poor management of resources by large groups of people who have the power to do so. Mainstream Media has just become another tool of the PTB in their power struggle to control and artificially limit natural resources as a means of control the public in general. The rural population has always had more independence and control over their lives and culture than people in the cities, and the PTB have always seen this a threat to their power, mostly because it's historically accurate. American Pioneers were virtually impossible to control or manipulate by our colonial government, so they were given relatively inexpensive opportunities to purchase "charted wilderness" to develop at their own expense, and not the government's. Ever wonder why so many of us are descendants of Europeans? Things really have been overcrowded and have sucked there for centuries, and it isn't getting better. Our population here in the U.S. is somewhere around 327 million, or so, but elsewhere, in less space, Billions. North America is still a far better living environment, for many different reasons, than Europe or Asia, and they know it. Globalization is simply a new order attempt at Worldwide Communism, and if the PTB succeeds, it will make everyone equal, alright, equally poor. I'm not going to go into any details on any more of this, but to answer the question posted, YES, "Man-Made G.W." is a scam and a fraud crisis, and just the latest, greatest "public control method" being used against individual Liberty and Freedom.

On a lighter note, I am glad to be a part of an ever shrinking group of people who choose to re-use and recycle what a growing number of people are discarding as refuse....in fact....all of us here are part of that group, and wee should continue our individual efforts to do as we do, and "infect" more of our friends and family with the MBS habits that we enjoy, lol! Maybe if our society hadn't become so wasteful in our excesses, the rest of the world wouldn't be so uptight about things, but then you and I wouldn't have such an abundance of motor-bike hobbies, either.
I tell my friends and customers alike, to do as their conscience dictates, because they will anyway. As for me, I am not going to willingly capiltulate to any "Global Guilt Trip", regardless of how reckless or righteous others may choose to act. It has been said "money is the root of all evil" and I greatly disagree. IMO the worst things in our society have been "people with no productive skills and too much time on their hands with nothing productive to do" (AKA Bureaucrats, Tree Huggers, and Socialists)

:good: :doh: :yes:

 

[mcgovern61]

Just a moderator note; Even though this topic is really "off topic" for a motorcycle forum, I appreciate the calm manner and interesting points presented in a civil manner. Hats off to you guys! :hi:

 

[DaveKamp]

I am glad to be a part of an ever shrinking group of people who choose to re-use and recycle what a growing number of people are discarding as refuse..

AMEN!

When people drive down the street and see trash, I see raw materials... They see an old washing machine, I see a perforated drum, an electric motor, some shafts and gears, and some nicely painted steel sheets, plenty of various colors of wire (with push-on connectors!). To go along with it, there's a lot of really incapable people on this planet, so making an entire logistical industry of collecting recyclable resources is a waste of precious resources in itself.

'Building things from junk' is regarded by many as folly. "why waste the time, when you could just BUY one".

Building things is a very necessary exercise, both in creativity and manual skills, but also science, and most of all, self-economics. People look at economics as just money, but it is, in fact, the very opposite- it is all about time, energy, and resources. The problem is, that economics is multidimensional, yet it is only expressed in ONE dimension- money. A conservative (Small letter c here, because I'm talking not about political, but actual act of conserving) realizes that economics includes the whole myriad of dimensions, and the dollar is merely a piece of paper with a number on it.

One of my 'pet' project ideas for a stray summer day, is to make a hot mold into which I can compress #2 HDPE onto osage orange handles to make durable and inexpensive plastic mallets. I'm always needing a plastic mallet to reset tooling or assemble machinery, but the tool store mallets are either lame, or too fancy... but with warm #2 pressed onto a really tough handle with about 20 tons, then cooled and sanded, oughta be about perfect. If that works well enough to be easily perfectable, I'll figure out a convenient way to melt #2 into blocks to use as test material for CNC test runs. Machinable wax works, but plastic makes a bona-fide part that one can actually assemble into a prototype. Would this be an economical venture? Depends on how you look at it. If I happen to stumble on a slick method of sorting the incompatible plastics from the compatibles... or a reliable method of getting the proper heat-pressure combination for high-quality molding and extrusion... or a great way to do this using waste heat from some other aspect of a process, it might get me a patent, or a process-concept sale... or better yet, serve as a stepping-stone forward for the future of our planet. In the meantime, I'll make myself plastic mallets, right?

The Lottery was a short-story written in the late '40's, later made into a movie... and it was a very appropriate and well-written illustration of how people can be. Here's a prediction I'll offer all of you: In the future, there will be a movie, where an entire class of people will be engaged in mining, but not in coal beds or mountains... they'll be mining in landfills... searching out deposits of materials that we SHOULD have been gathering and reprocessing.

And speaking of this... I've been looking for a jaw crusher... one that'd take an 8x12" chunk of concrete down to 2". I've got lots of bad concrete that needs to come out in the process of upcoming renovations (Dairy barn, driveway, garage, 2 workshops, and a grainery building) which will result in LOTS of broken concrete, and I'll have need for lots of crusher-run fill... so an appropriate machine is in order, if anyone knows of an old one sitting in a fencerow somewhere, please let me know...

 

[GTC@MSAC]

mcgovern61 » 05 Mar 2020, 10:44[/url]":vdde2lva]
Just a moderator note; Even though this topic is really "off topic" for a motorcycle forum, I appreciate the calm manner and interesting points presented in a civil manner. Hats off to you guys! :hi:

I have often felt that part of being a "biker" was being a bit conservative and less wasteful than others who bought "big". Even a "big bike" such as a GoldWing is more sensible and economical for "pleasure driving" than say a huge Olds Convertible. Until recently, it was not even possible to put $10.00 worth of gas in an empty bike tank, and I have never had to fight for a parking space on a bike....yet, lol! I can fit 10 bikes in a single-car garage, so I conserve space. On a bike you must practice the economy of efficiency, fuel, luggage, time in the saddle, and so on. I know plenty of folks who have tried, but just cannot adapt to motorcycling, for those reasons alone. Yes, I have a minivan, or two, how else would I haul my projects around, lol! But I prefer to travel and even grocery shop by bike, when weather allows. At 55, I am not so eager to head out on a bike in bad weather, but it happens nonetheless. What most non-riders do not understand is that there is more to being a rider than just riding a motorcycle....but I think I'm preaching to the choir on this one, lol!

P.S. Hond-"Wing" riders are the epitome of civility, didn't you know that? Lol!

 

[saganaga]

The really nice thing about reusing and repairing is that we've found it a better way to live.

We've bought a lot of things used, and for the most part, our enjoyment is the same, but our financial obligations are much less. That means less stress and less of a burden on ourselves.

Same with fixing things - I can either spend an hour fixing something, or spend multiple hours at work earning the money to pay to fix or replace it. I'll admit I'm lazy - I'd rather spend the hour with a wrench in my hand than more time at work.

Not everyone is the same. Some people derive a lot of enjoyment from having the newest and best of everything, and would never want to get dirty or greasy repairing something. That's their choice, but the trade-off is that they have to make more money or forgo other things in their life.

 

[ekvh]

Another positive to some regulation is the improved condition of water quality in the USA. I grew up in Cow Hampshire in a time when lots of people used bodies of water to take junk and drop it in, “Look, all gone.” People even built houses on steep inclines so they could walk out back and throw their garbage downhill. Sewage and septic systems were pumped into rivers and lakes. The Earthday movement got enough people to start cleaning up rivers and fines got stiff enough to stop throwing garbage out the car window. My science teachers told me Lake Erie was a dead lake and would never have fish in it again. Requiring septic system inspections for anyone near water has helped. Using phosphate free soaps has helped.

Europe has done the same with most of its water. There are pros and cons to the GW “crisis.” It certainly appears to me that this is merely a vehicle for governments to collect more money. I’m in Canada where the theory is that by making carbon based fuels more expensive, it will force people to change their consumption habits. Sure.

 

[saganaga]

We have that issue around here, with fertilizer runoff. Saw a map of the state the other day with a waterway pollution and it correlates well with farming areas.

The best solution seems to be buffer zones by lakes and streams, but there's enough of a farm lobby that it is politically difficult to do. I understand - if I was a farmer, I'd want to farm all of my land and not be told by the government that I had to not plow within so many feet of a waterway. But that all runs downstream, creating problems for other people, and that ain't right either.

 

[DaveKamp]

saganaga » Today, 3:42 pm[/url]":33hlfwfz]
We have that issue around here, with fertilizer runoff. Saw a map of the state the other day with a waterway pollution and it correlates well with farming areas.

The best solution seems to be buffer zones by lakes and streams, but there's enough of a farm lobby that it is politically difficult to do. I understand - if I was a farmer, I'd want to farm all of my land and not be told by the government that I had to not plow within so many feet of a waterway. But that all runs downstream, creating problems for other people, and that ain't right either.

My dad grew up on the shores of West Lake Okoboji in NW Iowa. It's a 'blue water' lake, about 210ft deep or so at it's deepest. Being the case, Dad had, at any given time, at least ONE boat ready (oftne many more) since I was about 5, and STILL has a boat... Growing up, we were a boating family, and since we lived along the Mississippi River, that was our primary boating place. He STILL lives right on the river (as did my wife and I for about 12 years), and having a dock immediately out your front door, with a boat waiting, is a fantastic life that I miss (now that we have a farmstead up the hill).

My uncle still farms my mom's side family farm that my grandfather went from share-crop renting, to large area ownership for pasture (Santa Gertrudis cattle) and hay, alfalfa, corn, soybeans, and oats. During his peak, he had hogs, chickens, and dairy cows, and I helped him for 3 weeks of every summer from my 4th birthday 'till I was at least 16.

I saw the river change from the mid '70's to today, and they ARE seeing signs of less phosphate. IN general, Algae blooms are WAY down, not just in the Mississippi, but in tributarial streams, and in farm ponds all around, and much of that is attributed to phosphate fertilizers. The side-effect of this, is that lots of the foliage and grasses that used to grow on the river islands have diminished greatly... so it may be both good, and bad, depending on the circumstance, I dunno.

I DO know that the advent of 'precision farming'... particularly the mapping of field chemistry, and use of that data to apply fertilizers and pest/herbicides... have reduced the quantity of those products used... and also, the ability of weather radar and forecasting models to determine the times best to NOT make those applications... have reduced the sheer volume of products applied, and also, improved the effective value of those products because the application actually gets to 'do' it's job, rather than just being rinsed down into a stream somewhere.

My grandfather made excellent point of it... he was a substantial proponent of 'simple', but when it came to use of chemical products, was rather Type A about where and how much to use... and while he was a very talented botanist, he was, by nature, an agronomist and agricultural engineer. He didn't waste a penny on putting down products if the soild under him didn't NEED it. He didn't like dumping money on a money-bleeding problem...

So economics has a whole lot to do with it... but moreso, being frugal is the greatest motivator for reduced use of chems.

 

[saganaga]

DaveKamp » 7 minutes ago[/url]":3t38zzco]

saganaga » Today, 3:42 pm[/url]":3t38zzco]
We have that issue around here, with fertilizer runoff. Saw a map of the state the other day with a waterway pollution and it correlates well with farming areas.

The best solution seems to be buffer zones by lakes and streams, but there's enough of a farm lobby that it is politically difficult to do. I understand - if I was a farmer, I'd want to farm all of my land and not be told by the government that I had to not plow within so many feet of a waterway. But that all runs downstream, creating problems for other people, and that ain't right either.

My dad grew up on the shores of West Lake Okoboji in NW Iowa. It's a 'blue water' lake, about 210ft deep or so at it's deepest. Being the case, Dad had, at any given time, at least ONE boat ready (oftne many more) since I was about 5, and STILL has a boat... Growing up, we were a boating family, and since we lived along the Mississippi River, that was our primary boating place. He STILL lives right on the river (as did my wife and I for about 12 years), and having a dock immediately out your front door, with a boat waiting, is a fantastic life that I miss (now that we have a farmstead up the hill).

Pretty sure that your dad and some distant cousins of mine know of each other.

I saw the river change from the mid '70's to today, and they ARE seeing signs of less phosphate. IN general, Algae blooms are WAY down, not just in the Mississippi, but in tributarial streams, and in farm ponds all around, and much of that is attributed to phosphate fertilizers. The side-effect of this, is that lots of the foliage and grasses that used to grow on the river islands have diminished greatly... so it may be both good, and bad, depending on the circumstance, I dunno.

I DO know that the advent of 'precision farming'... particularly the mapping of field chemistry, and use of that data to apply fertilizers and pest/herbicides... have reduced the quantity of those products used... and also, the ability of weather radar and forecasting models to determine the times best to NOT make those applications... have reduced the sheer volume of products applied, and also, improved the effective value of those products because the application actually gets to 'do' it's job, rather than just being rinsed down into a stream somewhere.

Agreed. Farmers are businesspeople, and fertilizer is a cost. Modern farming techniques have reduced fertilizer use. Related is salt use on our roads - the modern plow trucks have GPS, and won't salt the same road twice. Somewhat to an overactive degree - it hasn't been a problem in outstate, but danged if our city roads turn to hell about two or three weeks in spring.

 

[ekvh]

I’m not sure what Winnipeg is using on its streets instead of salt, but if the temperature is above zero F and we get a few inches of snow, they don’t plow, they put down this concoction. It makes a slushy mess and leaves a build up at least a foot wide next to the curb where no one drives. I really wonder what it is and what it’s doing to the rivers and lakes here. Most lakes here are full of algae as they’re shallow and we are a farm area as well.

No idea what it’s doing to cars and the rest of the environment.

Maybe it’s fine, but if it’s like most things man-made, it becomes a mess.

Just Googled it. It’s beet juice/ brine mixture and is purported to be less corrosive.

 

[DaveKamp]

My paternal grandfather's grandmother came from Sandweiler, Luxembourg with some members of a neighboring family in 1849, and settled a farm in what is now Currie, Mn... so I'm thinking the likelyhood is very good.

And I'm getting ready to bop down to Omaha to buy an old telephone and an antique book that any genuine gear-headed oil-blooded guy would see value in... I'll share bounty pix when I get back..

but this morning's thought:

Amongst other things, I love older motorcycles... older cars and trucks, if for no other reason of the simplicity and minimalistic utility upon which they exist. Not that I don't like creature comforts of a fairing and nice seat, but these creature comforts only have one moving part (the wind)... :smilie_happy: and I'm a guy that simply will NOT buy something shiny and new... I don't pay premium dollars to be on the bleeding-edge of anything. I put old stuff back in operation, and delight in a simple life.

But since I refuse to buy 'new'... that means I'm reusing old...

and since I just keep riding the same old motorcycles over-and-over...

I'm... (brace yourself...)

RE--- CYCLING!!! :yahoo: :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy: :yahoo:


Yes, EVH- Beet Juice. It's the modern replacement for tire ballast fluid... the old way was to use calcium chloride salt, saturated in water... not only would't it freeze 'till wayyy-stupid-cold, it was substantially heavier than water... but it'd eat the valve stems and rims off very aggressively. I'm certain the beet juice has it's ramifications, but not likely as nasty as turning the lakes to brackish... Lake Winnepeg and the Red River don't need to become a habitat for jellyfish and alligators. BTW... email me some poutine, would'ya? There's darned little but corner Taquieras in Schyler Nebraska nowdays. Speaking of environmental impact, there's a big meat-processing plant right next door to my jobsite, and for about an hour yesterday morning, there was almost no breeze, and it was blowing right at us. Good thing I didn't have breakfast... and I'm REALLY thankful that the breeze came up as soon as I was done with that crane...

 

[ekvh]

Researchers in NY and Ohio say “
"It's a nutrient source for organisms, microbial communities that can suck the oxygen out of the water," Hintz said. "There is a lot that we don't know about beet juice additives. But, we do know that it's just as toxic as regular salt to microorganisms."

Figures.

 

[DaveKamp]

ekvh » Yesterday, 1:06 pm[/url]":2h3kl6o2]
Researchers in NY and Ohio say “
"It's a nutrient source for organisms, microbial communities that can suck the oxygen out of the water," Hintz said. "There is a lot that we don't know about beet juice additives. But, we do know that it's just as toxic as regular salt to microorganisms."

Figures.

Yeah... but if it's just as toxic as regular salt, but a source of nutrients... does that make it good, bad, or indifferent?
but a question I haven't gotten a solid answer about... is wether it really IS a good suppliment for reducing constipation... and if it is, do all those microorganisms and microbial communities get the $#its?

As I was climbing into my truck this morning (I'm in Schuyler, Nebraska, btw... I can SEE the lights of Winnipeg from here if I stand on the roof of my truck)...

Is that last time I was in 'Peg... the highest thing there... was the WATER TABLE.... :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy: