Joe's new ride

[DaveKamp]

I don't know my engine series, etc., but I suspect there's more to the story with regard to temperature and thermostats here.

I DO know that this era had water pumps that rotated in the opposite direction... serpentine belt goes around the sheave on the opposite side. buddy had one, and came to me for help trying to resolve a chronic problem, previous owner changed one and used the wrong part They were available at parts stores with THREE vane shapes... standard (plentiful) reverse (hen's teeth) and so-called 'universal' (not worth a hoot)...

The thermostat opening temperature with the different systems were in different ranges, not because the engine ran at a different temperature, but rather, because the thermostat was on the opposite side of the flow path, causing the temperature of subject coolant being on the 'hotter' side, rather than 'colder'. IF you swap to the 'colder', side, the cooling system stays basically 'stuck' in bypass mode, which keeps the coolant temp sensor below op range, and the computer stays in 'open loop', with considerable enrichment.

There were some that used reverse-direction cooling flow path..

 

[detdrbuzzard]

congrats joe, hope you enjoy it for a long time. i had a '77 and had a lot of time driving an '84. i've never wanted another vette

 

[DaveKamp]

.another thing I'm thinking about is the mass air intake is heated with water through the radiator I'm thinking of by passing that to get a better cold charge set up but that not happening now just thinking about it .

As humid as it is in Florida, you'll find that at common ambient temperatures, the intake system will get very cold as a result of combined gas law. If you start an antique tractor on a damp Florida morning, and bring it up off idle a bit, you'll see the intake frost up on the outside.

Eliminating manifold (and in your case, TPI plenum) causes several things to happen- first is that ice chips will fly off the housing, into the MAF hot-wire. Not only will the MAF will read wrong, ice will break the hot-wire element. The throttle body will ice and jam up, and you'll have considerable constriction of the runners. For a very short time, it'll seem like you're getting more low-end torque on account of excess enrichment and increased air velocity through constricted runners. This will be followed by it falling on it's face from being almost blocked shut), and the extreme cold will prevent fuel from atomizing, hence you'll get fouled plugs and cylinders washed down with unburned fuel and carbon soot. Read up on how carb heat works in piston aircraft (and why they usually crash from lack of) before you monkey with that plenum heat circuit.

If you're really interested in power, but wanna keep it's 'stock' value, find yourself a 6.0 LS motor with a matching RWD transmission, slip the original out and pickle it, fish the 6.0 in, and figure out how to make the new engine's ECM talk to your original dashboard. Find an aftermarket hood with a little extra clearance and put a supercharger on for about 15lbs of boost, and call it good...

Does that generation have the fiberglass cross-leaf springs?

 

[joedrum]

Well Dave ..I for one know about long runners ..from my set up on hooch my oldwing .I for one know that icing is cause by one thing bad dial in on gas charge if the gas charge is right icing does not happen in fact I believe totally in cold charge induction warmed up manifolds in my opinion are bandaid fixes to bed gas charge ...forst on the outside of runners tells nothing about what's going on inside the runner. I'm not looking to change out motor to LS1 or series motor they are very good
.but they are not the best motors out there the gen5 LT motors are the best now days ..and of course I'm not going there either ..but as yoit comment goes those long runners are not going to ice up ..why the gas is injected at the heads takes gas to form ice ...real carb set ups are prone to ice up if carb is not dialed in at all rpm levels and demands ..this is why most cheap carb set ups use heat they don't have enough adjustments ...on the vette heating the air is all about EPA emissions not icing ...the new tech motors are finally going to where diesil did 50 years ago on best motors direct injection in the.cylinders absolutely no icing or pre ignition possible at all ..this is what the gen5 LT motors bring plus thete cams adjust. Just like timing advance quite the dam perfect set up for gas spark motors all negatives handled ...I'll work with what I have to the things I know will better it ..the motors will fall off on top rpm but the pay off on there set up is instant power in not looking to drag it just drive it ...if one of my small mods don't work I'll go back ..but I'm betting I can improve on w hats there just like I did with oldwings ..the adventure begins ..

 

[joedrum]

Well I'd say for right now my biggest problem on the vette is the vats system the anti steal device ...it's seems to be triggered every time I try to start it after it sits a while causing starter and fuel to shut down ...so I'll try and start it ..it won't start then have to takekey out let sit 5 minutes then it starts
I think Joel luckily his 85 vette doesnt have this ...I would like to get mine set up to where a key actually works old school. Reading up on it ..

 

[AApple]

VATS bypass module

 

[joedrum]

AApple » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:15 pm[/url]":1ix8r604]
VATS bypass module

Yes I've been reading about it and the many resistance values on the keys
.I'm sure your ECU IS rather strait set up and prized thing to have no BS

 

[joedrum]

Did a road trip cat did nicely ...car getting great mpg ...these vettes are not go in to loose to many 100yd dashes ..Nice set up ..I'm thin king on putting a hitch on it now to pull light trailer ..certainly will be no problem the way the power is set up ...probably this best pulling low rpm set up I've ever been around in a gas engine set up

And I've been around a lot with my farming background...love this vette

 

[Ansimp]

Congratulations Joe! :good: :salute: :clapping:

 

[DaveKamp]

joedrum » April 5th, 2021, 8:19 am[/url]":1mvsyj5g]
Well Dave ..I for one know about long runners ..from my set up on hooch my oldwing .I for one know that icing is cause by one thing bad dial in on gas charge if the gas charge is right icing does not happen in fact I believe totally in cold charge induction warmed up manifolds in my opinion are bandaid fixes to bed gas charge ...forst on the outside of runners tells nothing about what's going on inside the runner...

I really don't want to put it this way, but you're entirely misguided on this, Joe. You don't need to run ANY fuel into the engine to get ice. Aircraft engines running 110LL suffer carb ice, and it ain't because that 110LL is 'bad'. It is, in contrast, very seriously quality-controlled.

The ice is a result of moisture in the air, and the change of pressure coming through a venturi.

If you'd like to see it in another example, take an air hose, install any air tool... blow gun, die grinder, air drill... and let it rip.
- The tool won't get hot. It will get cold.

For intimate detail, read up on Combined Gas Law- (Pressure * Volume)/Temperature

When you compress a 5-gallon bucket of air into a 12-oz can, ALL the thermal energy that was in that 5 gallon space, is now concentrated in the small space, and as a result, it's not only under significantly higher pressure, it's HOT.
Reverse the process- take a high pressure can of air that is AT ambient, and release it from the can. In order to expand, that air must ABSORB heat... thus, it is cold.

Diesels don't have frost problems for any 'fuel' reason... they don't suffer intake freezing because they have no throttles or venturis... hence, they have no pressure change.
Direct fuel injection doesn't suffer frost issues nearly as much as a carbeurator, because they don't have venturis, they just have a Mass Airflow Sensor.

The carbeurator has a venturi, because it is necessary in order for Bernoulli Effect to withdraw fuel from the float bowl.

 

[joedrum]

I agree with most of what you said ...especially the fact that icing can accure with no gas involved at all humidity in the air plays biggest part as does pressure like flying high above ground...when I got into making hooch bike a new induction system ..there were many problems that had to be faced ..I'd say vacuum leaks was number one problem ...this was cured by doing away with stock intake horns that couldn't handle movement of carb and all way up tall ...this was cured by grab bar runners that went directly to head ...witch was a hot spot ..the gunners now being all consistent and long for this motor as compared to stock could ice up in right conditions ...I found the richer the has charge was at any given rpm would cause worse icing ..I also found that the runners hooked up directly to the head turned this icing into raw gas again before it made it to the combustion chamber..and bike would choke out and die you had to keep flipping the throttle to keep it running ...well then I insulated the intake runners from the heads so heat was slowed way down going into the runners ..this by itself made the bike run better ...Yes charge wad consistent the length of the runners ...after that I stood a great chance to dial in carb ..and as I did the mods to carb and adjustments to dial carb in the results were the runners on the system remain cool ...carb is even cooler ...this is all cold air induction and if you can dial in the carb this bumps horse power and torque hugely ..the carb itself is like a air conditioner and a huge reason Fuel injection had a hard time competing with a really well set up carb system ...my bike can jerk your hands off the bars if your not really ready to handle it's power ...with this set up I've been in the coldest conditions never has make bike choke out from icing ...ive even seen icing at high temps before in fla. Where humidity can be 100%...but never nothing that cause it to quit running ....there's?a certain coolness that when I feel the runners I can tell how good the bike will run at its best ..the gas charge is made up of air more than anything and is the biggest factor of power that can happen ....now my bike is far from a stock wing motor and one of a kind ...one thing for sure I know icing well

 

[joedrum]

dan filipi » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:44 pm[/url]":22wpsgb7]
Posting the pics for Joedrum, he will explain.

It's very easy for me to tell now why Apple likes his vette so well ....they are great cars probably one of the best cars ever made ...after driving this awhile now I'm really have got my thoughts together on it ...the c4 vettes with TPI tune port injection is a old or a kind muscle car ..it's relies on extracting its power at lower rpm...this makes it one of a kind ...

I'm so impressed I Cantrell myself ...
Things I Like..
1

 

[joedrum]

Wow most of my post got cut off ..

Anyway I'm going to mod the vette ...it will be quite the parts mixing .
.it will involve making things bigger
..bigger breathing heads the best Chevy ever made for these motors ..vortex heads ...the tune port injection system will be relaxed with a bigger one ...together with the heads this will be 20% bigger flow to the motor ..thete will some exhaust flow work not sure how much ...but the heads will be done up in bigger valve springs and the ability for 600 lift .. Not that I'm going there but can ..the cam in the motor is set much like a oldwing with not much overlap ...this is good for torque right off idle ...so I'm keeping the cam as is but I am going to play with roller rockers to change how cam operates wit different ratios from stock this will be this will give me greater lifts without widening duration much keeping its low torque cam grind ..something you can't hardly do with cam change alone ...there are many other things in doing ...

One thing for sure I like the tract record on the ECM control over fuel injection ..kind of like the hooch bike c5 ignition ..it will be programmed to the changes made
..

First performance systems is the only place on earth that makes the tune port injection system on steroids and will fit the vortex heads I'm putting on ...the stock system will not bolt up to the heads...many other things going on but this is long enough post