Near break down, she did it again

[skiri251]

Nice weather here in so Cal. Took my Oldwing out to the nearby twisty, the same route I rode BS200 yesterday.

Wow what a difference, Oldwing is so relaxing and powerful. (but never imagined what would happen next.)
Made a U-turn after 20 miles or so at the usual place.
Accelerated up to 4th gear or so then suddenly engine dies.
Coasted to nearby parking lot.

Tried to start the engine.
It starts but dies almost immediately. Just like the symptom I had last year after stop and go traffic in the city.

Checked sparks. Couldn't see any but after that the engine did start so maybe the way I grounded the plug?
Put chain lube in the carb intake. No difference.
Checked ground and positive terminal connection, no difference.
Disconnected fuel hose at the carb and started the engine. Fuel gushed out so I poured some in the carb intake.
Now engine won't even start (maybe too much gas and it's flooded?)

Called AMA for roadside assistance. 90 minute wait as usual.
While waiting, tried to start the engine again as usual. LOL
This time, persistent cranking started the engine which is coughing with too much fuel then dies.
Put the helmet on, gloves on, and started again. Now it's alive as nothing happened and I am safely at home, calling AMA to cancel the tow request.

.... so what is it? :Awe:

I am suspecting that stupid lean angle sensor I put in for safety purpose.
It is connected to a normally closed relay which kills ignition if the bike is dropped.
Could it be that sensor malfunctioning?
The engine died after (but not immediately, though) 1st gear tight U-turn. But if it is, it's like a kill switch. No intermittent on/off, right?

Or could it be vapor lock again? If so, where?
The fuel gushed out of the hose so it must be inside the carb, right?

Not sure about the heat either. She was okay when we went camp touring in 96F weather.
Today's ambient is cool 75F and I was cruising sea side road. Not in the city traffic..

Why I have so many troubles with old stuff? :head bang:

 

[dan filipi]

Get rid of that bank angle thing, I bet that's it.

 

[joedrum]

could be float sticking too in dft carb maybe ...if i remember right ..yours still has power valve in it ...those things are just crap in my opinion .vacuum can just flood the carb and motor ...obviously temperture can effect this device .....hmmmm but i agree bank angle sensor should at least be bypassed and tried ....

 

[OldWrench]

I agree with Dan, get rid of the angle sensor. Honda had a recall on the 1500's due to faulty angle sensor. How do I know, I had on that would die on me whenever I hit a bump or made a sharp u turn.

Instantly dying in most carburated vehicles is normally always electrical and not fuel.

 

[joedrum]

that sounds right

 

[skiri251]

Thanks.

Now I realize that relay shuts off fuel pump also. That was the idea. Fall down, and if the pump keeps pumping fuel that's fire hazard.

So... when I did a u-turn bank sensor kicked in and shut the fuel pump and engine died soon after..

But in the partking lot, I heard the pump clicking and the fuel gushed out. Yet it didn't run properly...

I agree though. I have too many cr@p added. Maybe get rid of them all and just go barebone.

 

[dan filipi]

i like the safety part of it but not if it makes it unrideable. Maybe it needs positioned differently?

 

[Steve83]

When an electric fuel pump shuts off, the engine keeps running until the carb bowl is dry. Then when the pump starts up again, the sudden rush of lots of fuel will sometimes dislodge a bit of dirt or scale which can plug a jet, or bind up the inlet needle valve. Hopefully, this too shall pass!

 

[Denver]

Agreed as to getting rid of the B A S. :yes: It was one of the first thing's done to my 1500, that i bought new. :rocks:

 

[Ansimp]

Don't get rid of your bank angle sensor controlling the fuel pump unless you come up with another safety switch of some kind. I usually use relay mounting blocks as it is really easy to bridge the switched terminals for testing purposes. If you just use crimped connection I always like using 5 pin relays so that you can complete the circuit by using the normally closed terminals or the common terminals ( twin 87 terminals).

 

[Denver]

Had this discussion b4 :roll:

 

[joedrum]

well this was biggest reason i stayed with machanical fuel pump ...flat out safety ...

 

[ekvh]

If it runs with the starter button held in, it could be the ballast resistor.

 

[skiri251]

Well, the pump worked soon after so if that BAS malfunctioned, it was just momentary.
No need to jump wires or anything to check.

I did shake BAS and heard the ring moving in the parking lot. It is a used unit I bought off eBay, came from GSXR or something.
It is really a crude device. There is U shaped thing inside and a ring going through it. When it is tilted, the ring moves with the gravity and touches the terminal. It wasn't working properly when I bought it so I had to open it up and clean terminals.

Is there easy way to know if the engine isn't running electronically?
If there is, I can hook up that signal to the relay instead of this BAS. Then add manual override switch for initial engine start. The reason why I have electric pump is I need to pump fuel up to the single carb before cranking. Otherwise I need to crank a while until the mechanical pump fills up the bowl and the engine starts eventually.

Or I can go back to mechanical/electric parallel approach I had before. Only use electric pump manually before the first engine start of a day.

At this stage though, I am more concerned with sudden engine stop than falling down and trapped under the motorcycle... I don't want the engine to die in the middle of 5-lane freeway with lots of traffic..

 

[Denver]

That's the reason mine was bypassed years ago! :good: Safety device was more of a hinderance, & safety issue, than a help. :smilie_happy: Never responded to the recall, :nea: solution to a non existent problem! :hihihi:

 

[joedrum]

non existant issue sheesh ....a fuel pump can burn a bike up in less than a minute trash it totally and has the potential to do much worst actually kill someone......

 

[slabghost]

Maybe a tether switch would be a better choice for fuel shut off?

 

[skiri251]

slabghost » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:13 am[/url]"qcacglt]
Maybe a tether switch would be a better choice for fuel shut off?

You mean the one which is connected to rider's wrist like jet skies?

 

[Denver]

Never an issue for anyone on all the model's b4, :doh: what is that kill switch for anyway? :roll:

 

[AApple]

I'm not unnerstanding WHY anyone thinks this is a fuel problem? A sudden loss of fuel pressure on a carbed engine will not cause it to die immediately....

Accelerated up to 4th gear or so then suddenly engine dies.

The carb still has fuel in the bowl, and will run until the level gets low enough to start sputtering/missing, and then it will die. If this thing died suddenly, without any sputtering or such, then how could it possibly be fuel related? We're not talking aboot fuel infection here....it's a single carb set-up. Am I missing sumptin or whut? I'd think it has a more electrical gremlin issue than a fuel pump.
Also....unless the fuel bowl is leaking, why do you have to crank on it after sitting to "fill the bowl"?