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Joined
May 12, 2014
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Location
Toney, AL
Hello Everyone,

I've had a motorcycle all of my adult life whether running or not, and have always loved riding in small groups on short trips finding interesting places, historical sites, good places to eat in the middle of nowhere, or just a place by a lake where everyone can get together and fire up the grill. Camping is not out of my scope of fun either, though the wife likes a little more comfort these days :)

I'm currently going through the cooling system and changing out the head gaskets on my GL1200 which blew due to an overheating, poor water circulation issue. When I got to the water pump it looked to be different than the OEM style, and it had 3 of the cast aluminum blades on it busted. I'm still looking for the pieces and hopefully most of them disintegrated, but will be probing, flushing, etc., to try and recover every single piece. It's been a while since I've gone into the heads on a bike so I am taking my ever-loving time doing it. I have the front cover off and the old pump out and am cleaning everything in sight. The left head is ready to come off and needs some more tapping before freeing itself from the old gasket and alignment pins. I have new, OEM gaskets to replace with, and am sort of anticipating that the heads may need some machining and all new valve seals. A few more taps and I'll know for sure.

I bought this bike a couple of years ago and have discovered after getting the wrenches out that it wasn't very well cared for. It has been poorly maintained but these bikes are resilient and bounce back pretty well, from what I have heard. There was oil film all over the internal parts, sludge in the bottom of the front cover, and some metal bits piled up under the oil pump. I am thinking that the bits are from the transmission which is hopefully not too badly damaged, but it is looking more and more like I need to go ahead and pull the engine and split the crankcase...sigh. I was hoping not to have to go this deep at this stage, but I'm not sure what I'd be leaving behind if I didn't go all of the way through it.

If anyone else has ever been through one of these in this shape, your input (and encouragement) is appreciated.

Anyway, glad to be here amongst those with a common interest. If there is anything I can help with, let me know.
 
Welcome from Southern California! Sounds like quite a project you got there - should be fun! Take your time, keep everything clean, stay alert, and you'll be fine. I'm not familiar with 1200 carbs, but plenty of folks here are, so you're in good hands. Enjoy!
 
Welcome from Oz. Hopefully my next project is not as full on as yours! (86 Aspy)
 
Welcome to CGW Hinton. I've never heard of or seen a cast aluminum impeller on a 1200 water pump, not saying that it isn't one, just that I don't think it was something that Honda offered. There are bake lite impellers which were phased out sometime in 83 when Honda switched to a stamped metal impeller. A bake lite impeller pump can be found in later model years just as I have just found one in my 84, they will interchange with each other. Before tapping to hard on the head, make sure you have all the bolts out, especially on the bottom, there's a small 6mm real low that sometimes is forgotten and cracks that area when not removed. Sludge in the bottom of the front cover is normal as is the oily film. I've never split the cases before so can't help you on that.
 
These transmissions are pretty bulletproof. Are the metal bits you found magnetic? The clutch is usually the culprit when these are found.

If a water pump blade lets go, there should be gouge marks in the front cover where the pump fits. The passages in the cover and block are fairly large, so broken bits could travel through them. The passages into the head are much smaller, and the radiator tubes are very small. I'm very curious what you find...

As Backlander pointed out, don't forget to remove that small bolt at the bottom of the heads - you'll regret it if you don't!!!
 
Thanks for all of the well wishes and helpful responses. Glad to be here - hopefully I can serve as more than a door stop and be of assistance occasionally.

I should have had enough sense to test those metal bits before I trashed them. I'll send my magnet in there around and behind the oil pump to see if there are any more that I missed while cleaning. Shifting is clunky so I assumed transmission gears, however I would imagine that the clutch plates are glued together with burned, sludgy oil.

I did find gouges in the impeller area which are deep and nearly all the way around, and the exit port has a very sharp edge. I looked through several housings on eBay with similar gouges (though not as severe), so I wonder what got in there or if the blades let loose on these. I found one that looked to be in good shape which I just purchased.

Attached is a photo of the old water pump. These impellers look to be cast aluminum (not magnetic). I assume this was supposed to be a "high performance" pump gone-wrong.

I have other photos of the sludge, bits, and housing but I need to review the policy on photos and hyperlinks before posting.

Thanks again :thanks:
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0143.JPG
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The best way to post photos is to set up an Album and link from it, that way the images are uploaded to the site and theoretically can't be lost.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=117643#p117643:1bz95dhw said:
Hinton » Tue May 13, 2014 4:08 am[/url]":1bz95dhw]
file.php
That is a Honda bakelite impeller. Standard on all 1100's up until '83.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=117657#p117657:1nqudlbq said:
mcgovern61 » Tue May 13, 2014 5:23 am[/url]":1nqudlbq]
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=117643#p117643:1nqudlbq said:
Hinton » Tue May 13, 2014 4:08 am[/url]":1nqudlbq]
file.php
That is a Honda bakelite impeller. Standard on all 1100's up until '83.
The impeller looks to be way off center with the housing in that photo.
The bearing must be really worn.

My 84 engine had a bakelite pump also.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=117657#p117657:er7g98in said:
mcgovern61 » Tue May 13, 2014 7:23 am[/url]":er7g98in]
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=117643#p117643:er7g98in said:
Hinton » Tue May 13, 2014 4:08 am[/url]":er7g98in]
file.php
That is a Honda bakelite impeller. Standard on all 1100's up until '83.

Standard? The two (80 and 81) I have taken out must have been aftermarket then
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=117672#p117672:32xm1673 said:
brianinpa » Tue May 13, 2014 8:29 am[/url]":32xm1673]
Standard? The two (80 and 81) I have taken out must have been aftermarket then
Yep, if you have the metal ones, that more than likely means they were replaced at least once. All three engines that I have ('81, '82, '83) have their original bakelite impellers.

As a matter of fact, the '83 engine is going on the floor this week and I should check the play in the pump.
 
Greetings again and many thanks for the warm welcomes and the input!

Well I tried uploading to the album and then realized my photos will have to be downsized, so until I figure that out, I'll post these links:

https://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac51/cmhinton/GL1200 Head Gasket/IMG_0142.jpg
https://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac51/cmhinton/GL1200 Head Gasket/IMG_0145.jpg
https://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac51/cmhinton/GL1200 Head Gasket/DSCN3054.jpg

Actually the impeller is centered on the shaft though the prior photo does make it look off to the side. Turning it you can feel tension.

So I take it that this Bakelite pump impeller is not cast aluminum? It looks to be, anyway and it is not magnetic except for the shaft. If it is nylon, I'd feel better about getting all of the fragments out with a good water hose flushing.

I have heard of the transmission being clunky, I just wish I could ride another 1200 to compare; it just seems like my problem may be clutch plates sticking. From first to second seems to be the worst (very loud) but the higher gears smooth out.

I'm debating going out there this evening and working on it...lol. Let me see if I can get behind myself and push.

Take care
 
Well I got the left side off. Between the cylinders appears to be signs of blowback, but no blown out places on the head gasket.

DSCN3069.jpg


DSCN3070.jpg


DSCN3076.jpg


As far as the fan parts expected to be found all in the cooling system, nothing so far other than small particles, but I still think there's a big hunk or two somewhere.
 

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