RoofedWing complete!

[Rednaxs60]

From another forum - can you turn yours into this - in a museum in New Zealand:

 

[dan filipi]

To me, finding out how it does in the rain....by chance....without trying to go in the rain....is part of the fun and experience.
But I am strange, so disregard my opinion.

 

[kerryb]

Cool project Skiri, I think you might reduce the vibration ( flutter) of the rain wings by changing the shape of the leading edge just a little. Just a hunch.

 

[DaveKamp]

If you need a string of laughs... check out the OTHER stuff he blends. Better visit the bathroom first... :smilie_happy:

Yours is too nice to go to duct-taped doors... but a slider (like what's on my step-van) might work... obviously you'd need to be able to get it out of the way quick so an unexpected stop, doesn't become an unexpected plop...
That New Zealand three wheeler looks pretty cool, especially that front suspension... I'll hafta look up that machine.

I guess I got too used to riding bicycles in the rain... being on the motorcycle is about the same, just a bit more painful when it hits... and of course, the fairing's 'pocket' keeps me from getting as soaked as being on the bicycle.

 

[skiri251]

joedrum » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:57 am[/url]":38md4dpp]
I want to see just a ride video ...from like a car beside you ...I don’t think it’s something to go out in the rain till it’s proven ..the bike and your time in the saddle also ..go slow Skirri with all this ..this was a build and then some treat it that way ...

Thanks for the concern but I am not sure what to prove.
It's just a glorified fairing. Much less drastic than the leaner sidecar rig. No moving parts.
Are you worried that it's not sturdy enough and break catastrophically?

I didn't feel anything dangerous during my 40 mile freeway run. I did 70 MPH max, average 60MPH maybe.
The first rain test will not be on a freeway so that I don't have to go very fast and can stop immediately if something happens.
The worst I can imagine is rain water leaking though.
What else do you think will happen in a rain?

 

[skiri251]

Rednaxs60 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:49 pm[/url]":2znsn0b1]
From another forum - can you turn yours into this - in a museum in New Zealand:

That is a trike, right?
No way I can design/fabricate that hub center steering front end. LOL
I guess to be stable in a cross wind, it should be as low as possible but that requires building a frame from scratch. (Like the one I saw in Vetter Challenge site.)

 

[skiri251]

dan filipi » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:53 pm[/url]":g3hy7fsv]
To me, finding out how it does in the rain....by chance....without trying to go in the rain....is part of the fun and experience.
But I am strange, so disregard my opinion.

I agree. LOL
Can't imagine intentionally going out in a rain from home.
I need to be forced into the situation. That means a touring away from home.

 

[skiri251]

kerryb » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:57 pm[/url]":15dmpydx]
Cool project Skiri, I think you might reduce the vibration ( flutter) of the rain wings by changing the shape of the leading edge just a little. Just a hunch.

Thanks!

What kind of shape should it be?
I have no idea.
The current shape was formed by cutting out the area which interfered with overhead air vent intake.

 

[skiri251]

DaveKamp » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:42 pm[/url]":2l2fxtbo]
If you need a string of laughs... check out the OTHER stuff he blends. Better visit the bathroom first... :smilie_happy:

Yours is too nice to go to duct-taped doors... but a slider (like what's on my step-van) might work... obviously you'd need to be able to get it out of the way quick so an unexpected stop, doesn't become an unexpected plop...
That New Zealand three wheeler looks pretty cool, especially that front suspension... I'll hafta look up that machine.

I guess I got too used to riding bicycles in the rain... being on the motorcycle is about the same, just a bit more painful when it hits... and of course, the fairing's 'pocket' keeps me from getting as soaked as being on the bicycle.

Why does he have to blend things? LOL

My sidecar once had a WW2 fighter plane like canopy which slides back and forth. So I thought about it.
Again the concern is a cross wind.
Covering the lower part where motorcycle body already exists won't increase the susceptibility but above that area.

My last ride in a rain was 3 years ago in Japan. That was two week long touring. It rained one whole day.
I was riding Honda NC750 which just had a tiny fairing. So I was drenched. I am used to ride in a rain in Japan but can't say it's enjoyable.

 

[joedrum]

skiri251 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:29 am[/url]":18gd07tc]

joedrum » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:57 am[/url]":18gd07tc]
I want to see just a ride video ...from like a car beside you ...I don’t think it’s something to go out in the rain till it’s proven ..the bike and your time in the saddle also ..go slow Skirri with all this ..this was a build and then some treat it that way ...

Thanks for the concern but I am not sure what to prove.
It's just a glorified fairing. Much less drastic than the leaner sidecar rig. No moving parts.
Are you worried that it's not sturdy enough and break catastrophically?

I didn't feel anything dangerous during my 40 mile freeway run. I did 70 MPH max, average 60MPH maybe.
The first rain test will not be on a freeway so that I don't have to go very fast and can stop immediately if something happens.
The worst I can imagine is rain water leaking though.
What else do you think will happen in a rain?

I don’t have any big concerns ...but it’s only all good to go steady and slow testing things ...as a person who has try many unknown things doing something ...there is the fact that unknowns are real thing to deal with ...seldom is there project that doesn’t have to be modified for one reason or another ...

 

[DaveKamp]

There was a time many years ago, when I was much younger, and much faster, fitted one of my velodrome bicycles with a 'Zzipper' fairing, and ran a 'hundred lap solo challenge' with some of my teammates. We were working on improving our riding aerodynamics, and using fairings demonstrated a noticeable change in efficiency, that we used as a target to shoot for when riding without a fairing (because fairings aren't allowed in competetive cycling in track, road, or time-trials).

The Zzipper is a flexible thermo-formed polycarbonate bubble, and mine attached with clips to the handlebar brake hoods, which means crosswind gusts would blow the handlebars to the side. On an indoor velodrome track, there's never crosswinds, and on an outdoor track, the sides are banked really steep, so no real impact there, but depending on where the stands are, and the number of spectators, the straights have a short windows where crosswinds can kick you around, even without a fairing. To reduce rolling resistance, we rode on high pressure tires (at that time, mine were 7/8" wide Vittoria sew-ups at 180psi), and when riding, we rode directly on the 'sprinter's line', which is a hair under 2" wide. The red paint in that line smoothed the rolling surface to provide the lowest drag...

So what we were doing, was each running 100 laps as fast as we could go, with fairings, and then after, running another 100 laps, making small changes to our clothing, profile, and position, in order to get as fast with, as without.

But anyway, velodrome bicycles, being designed for a steeply sloped track, don't get to steer like road bicycles... the track geometry, and the bicycle geometry is somewhat intolerant of mistakes, so little bumps against the handlebars can be scary. Gusts were noticed, but really not nearly as much as I expected... and had it been mounted to the frame, rather than the handlebar brake hoods, I'm thinkin it would have been basically unnoticed in the scheme of the rest of me. I didn't ride my velodrome bike on the road (it's a fixed gear, low bottom bracket... totally inappropriate handling for on-street or bike path), but I DID run the Zzipper on my road race frame on many occasions, and I never felt that crosswind was of any significant concern, and in some cases, the fairing probably helped direct it around me. The wind blew me around a little bit, but not nearly as much as I expected.

At about the same time, I bought my CX500D, and it had a plexi-fairing like what Joe has on Hooch, but mine was taller, and came down a bit lower on right and left sides of the forks a bit... I don't recall for certain, but I believe it may have been a SlipStreamer. My prior bike was a KZ400D, with no fairing, so I was expecting the CX-D to kick the handlebars a bit in sidewind like the Zzipper on the track bike, but of course, the steering geometry, mass, and gyroscopic effect of the wheels made it unnoticeable. When the plexi fairing finally broke, I switched to the frame-mount Pacifico Aero, and it was mebbie a slight bit more responsive to side wind, but still not much.

I suspect that your roof setup's only significant response to sidewind, will be due to additional drag from the turbulence formed by some of the rough edges, and the side portals. I'm pretty certain that as you ride it, you'll feel the airflow differential from right and left sides, and get used to how it responds. If you were to close those off, and smooth it out, it'd probably become insignificantly slight.

 

[dan filipi]

skiri251 » Yesterday, 8:58 pm[/url]":214z8hdj]
My sidecar once had a WW2 fighter plane like canopy which slides back and forth. So I thought about it.
Again the concern is a cross wind.
Covering the lower part where motorcycle body already exists won't increase the susceptibility but above that area.

My last ride in a rain was 3 years ago in Japan. That was two week long touring. It rained one whole day.
I was riding Honda NC750 which just had a tiny fairing. So I was drenched. I am used to ride in a rain in Japan but can't say it's enjoyable.

Ooooh, yes crosswind. My heart dropped when I read that.
Agreed that should be a very real concern.....forget about rain, Lol.

We get some intense winds here. Once I was riding the wing on a 4 lane highway out to the Air Force base off 99 outside Barstow.
It felt like I was leaning 45 degrees, felt like 45 but probably less. Scary, especially when the wind would suddenly STOP then pick up again. It was like 50 mph max I dare push it.

 

[skiri251]

joedrum » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:40 am[/url]":2j90lxs3]

skiri251 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:29 am[/url]":2j90lxs3]

Thanks for the concern but I am not sure what to prove.
It's just a glorified fairing. Much less drastic than the leaner sidecar rig. No moving parts.
Are you worried that it's not sturdy enough and break catastrophically?

I didn't feel anything dangerous during my 40 mile freeway run. I did 70 MPH max, average 60MPH maybe.
The first rain test will not be on a freeway so that I don't have to go very fast and can stop immediately if something happens.
The worst I can imagine is rain water leaking though.
What else do you think will happen in a rain?

I don’t have any big concerns ...but it’s only all good to go steady and slow testing things ...as a person who has try many unknown things doing something ...there is the fact that unknowns are real thing to deal with ...seldom is there project that doesn’t have to be modified for one reason or another ...

Thanks.
I got it. Will proceed with caution.

 

[skiri251]

dan filipi » Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:47 am[/url]":349xo0w0]

skiri251 » Yesterday, 8:58 pm[/url]":349xo0w0]
My sidecar once had a WW2 fighter plane like canopy which slides back and forth. So I thought about it.
Again the concern is a cross wind.
Covering the lower part where motorcycle body already exists won't increase the susceptibility but above that area.

My last ride in a rain was 3 years ago in Japan. That was two week long touring. It rained one whole day.
I was riding Honda NC750 which just had a tiny fairing. So I was drenched. I am used to ride in a rain in Japan but can't say it's enjoyable.

Ooooh, yes crosswind. My heart dropped when I read that.
Agreed that should be a very real concern.....forget about rain, Lol.

We get some intense winds here. Once I was riding the wing on a 4 lane highway out to the Air Force base off 99 outside Barstow.
It felt like I was leaning 45 degrees, felt like 45 but probably less. Scary, especially when the wind would suddenly STOP then pick up again. It was like 50 mph max I dare push it.

When my son and I go to El Mirage for dirt bike riding / camping, we take I-15. The area north of I-210 before climing the mountains is very windy.
Sometimes scary in high roof E150 van. Never ridden motorcycle there however.
I think that route is good for roofedWing cross wind test.

We rode Oldwing leaner sidecar rig on I-10 going through Banning where I saw lots of windmill generators on the hills.
That was very scary. I don't want to do it again.

Hopefully the current roof won't increase cross wind resistance much because it's flat and has very little sideway projected area.

 

[skiri251]

DaveKamp » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:38 am[/url]":26csx839]
There was a time many years ago, when I was much younger, and much faster, fitted one of my velodrome bicycles with a 'Zzipper' fairing, and ran a 'hundred lap solo challenge' with some of my teammates. We were working on improving our riding aerodynamics, and using fairings demonstrated a noticeable change in efficiency, that we used as a target to shoot for when riding without a fairing (because fairings aren't allowed in competetive cycling in track, road, or time-trials).

The Zzipper is a flexible thermo-formed polycarbonate bubble, and mine attached with clips to the handlebar brake hoods, which means crosswind gusts would blow the handlebars to the side. On an indoor velodrome track, there's never crosswinds, and on an outdoor track, the sides are banked really steep, so no real impact there, but depending on where the stands are, and the number of spectators, the straights have a short windows where crosswinds can kick you around, even without a fairing. To reduce rolling resistance, we rode on high pressure tires (at that time, mine were 7/8" wide Vittoria sew-ups at 180psi), and when riding, we rode directly on the 'sprinter's line', which is a hair under 2" wide. The red paint in that line smoothed the rolling surface to provide the lowest drag...

So what we were doing, was each running 100 laps as fast as we could go, with fairings, and then after, running another 100 laps, making small changes to our clothing, profile, and position, in order to get as fast with, as without.

But anyway, velodrome bicycles, being designed for a steeply sloped track, don't get to steer like road bicycles... the track geometry, and the bicycle geometry is somewhat intolerant of mistakes, so little bumps against the handlebars can be scary. Gusts were noticed, but really not nearly as much as I expected... and had it been mounted to the frame, rather than the handlebar brake hoods, I'm thinkin it would have been basically unnoticed in the scheme of the rest of me. I didn't ride my velodrome bike on the road (it's a fixed gear, low bottom bracket... totally inappropriate handling for on-street or bike path), but I DID run the Zzipper on my road race frame on many occasions, and I never felt that crosswind was of any significant concern, and in some cases, the fairing probably helped direct it around me. The wind blew me around a little bit, but not nearly as much as I expected.

At about the same time, I bought my CX500D, and it had a plexi-fairing like what Joe has on Hooch, but mine was taller, and came down a bit lower on right and left sides of the forks a bit... I don't recall for certain, but I believe it may have been a SlipStreamer. My prior bike was a KZ400D, with no fairing, so I was expecting the CX-D to kick the handlebars a bit in sidewind like the Zzipper on the track bike, but of course, the steering geometry, mass, and gyroscopic effect of the wheels made it unnoticeable. When the plexi fairing finally broke, I switched to the frame-mount Pacifico Aero, and it was mebbie a slight bit more responsive to side wind, but still not much.

I suspect that your roof setup's only significant response to sidewind, will be due to additional drag from the turbulence formed by some of the rough edges, and the side portals. I'm pretty certain that as you ride it, you'll feel the airflow differential from right and left sides, and get used to how it responds. If you were to close those off, and smooth it out, it'd probably become insignificantly slight.

Interesting!
Never realized aero is so important to bicycle races. The same applies to "Keirin" format?

So having nice aero dynamic shape will reduce cross wind resistance and thus its influence.
Unfortunately it's not so easy to fabricate nice roundy shape unless I invest time and money.
I guess generic Vetter Challenge fairing sold by Vetter is too small for Goldwing.

 

[Rednaxs60]

Experienced significant cross and headwinds coming across the prairies last year and this one. Moved the '85 LTD quite a bit, the V-Strom not quite so. The road from Calgary to Canmore was brutal, and last year on the '85, crosswinds moved me from one lane to another, thankfully a four lane highway - pucker factor was quite high. There are signs posted to this affect. Riding in a straight line as if you were cornering is no fun.
.

 

[joedrum]

Hmmmm in Florida ..where it get dangerous is close to the ocean crossing the intercostal waterway on bridges made high enough for big boats to pass through ..when you get blown around there’s no place to go really ..skyline parkway over Tampa bay really bad too ...I’ve had some bad moments in severe cross winds

 

[skiri251]

Rednaxs60 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:48 pm[/url]":ypmptgpg]
Experienced significant cross and headwinds coming across the prairies last year and this one. Moved the '85 LTD quite a bit, the V-Strom not quite so. The road from Calgary to Canmore was brutal, and last year on the '85, crosswinds moved me from one lane to another, thankfully a four lane highway - pucker factor was quite high. There are signs posted to this affect. Riding in a straight line as if you were cornering is no fun.
.

> V-Strom not quite so

I wonder why.. due to smaller projected area?

 

[skiri251]

joedrum » Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:53 pm[/url]":361ns3ih]
Hmmmm in Florida ..where it get dangerous is close to the ocean crossing the intercostal waterway on bridges made high enough for big boats to pass through ..when you get blown around there’s no place to go really ..skyline parkway over Tampa bay really bad too ...I’ve had some bad moments in severe cross winds

That sounds totally scary. I don't like riding on high bridges without any cross wind to begin with.

There is one tall bridge from my house to Long Beach. That is also really high for cruise and cargo ships.
The surface is steel grid so steering feels funny.

 

[Rednaxs60]

skiri251 » Yesterday, 3:05 pm[/url]":42r7mpug]

Rednaxs60 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:48 pm[/url]":42r7mpug]
Experienced significant cross and headwinds coming across the prairies last year and this one. Moved the '85 LTD quite a bit, the V-Strom not quite so. The road from Calgary to Canmore was brutal, and last year on the '85, crosswinds moved me from one lane to another, thankfully a four lane highway - pucker factor was quite high. There are signs posted to this affect. Riding in a straight line as if you were cornering is no fun.
.

> V-Strom not quite so

I wonder why.. due to smaller projected area?

No idea really. I do think that there is less to catch the wind.