Single Carb Conversion 2 Barrel Progressive Holley,Weber 740 carb

[westgl]

OK Dan.

I was fishing to see if there was Any interest, in the "Waste oil Heater" subject, as i don't want to waste my time, starting a New thread if there is No interest.

PM's would have been welcome.

I have More updated Post's of the "Single carb Thread" on the "Steve Saunders Site" if anyone is interested.

dan filipi » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:03 am[/url]":1zxqnega]
West, please start a new thread on the heater so we can keep this thread on topic.

:thanks:

 

[westgl]

Guys guys guys,

Gee wiz I had a big "honey do list" to take care of,

I come back and have a few PM's

Dont worry, Be happy.

I am one easy going Mudder Fudder.

 

[joedrum]

cool

 

[ekvh]

So, you're turning it into a Tracker? Really looking forward to more info and ride reports before I pull the trigger on this mod.

 

[westgl]

Ok so on to the show,

Before we start

Both Bike In stock OEM configuration both Oem 4 carbs

I think that the Stock GL1200 w/ oem 4 Carb engine produces more low, mid and even top end power
when compared to the Stock GL1100 w/ Oem 4 carb setup

This is felt power seat o pants, getting away from a stop, or roll on power

Between those two bikes both being stock and oem4 carbs the GL1200 has more felt power.

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Now the comparison between Single carb and 4 OEM carbs

I did a comparison of the GL11-1 Vs the GL12-4

or tried to,

Temp 71 degrees

First off let me say that i dont think this will be a fair comparison.

The time lapse in between makes it tough.

I was thinking how I can do this and remain Neutral and still provide accurate info.

Riding Back To back comparisons, and trying to compare them using a seat of pants comparison, will not be accurate

As far as Speed is concerned,

My GL1200, is no Slouch, it is fast,

My GL1200 is a 1200cc bike, it was a faster than my GL1100 was before, when both had 4 carbs.

So the comparison is almost impossible.

Keep that in mind.

Also there is No Secondary on the GL1200 oem 4-carbs

The single carb doubles its Lung capacity the last third or so, of the total throttle length of pull.

Meaning do I test using single barrel only both barreals only, a combo of the two, or the amount of throttle,

But the amount of throttle pull is in accurate due to there being a secondary that open late in the throttle Length of pull.

My GL1100 1-Carb Conversion is also Fast, Riding around on the 1st bbl. is very Very nice, you could use only the primary, and it is enough for 95% of getting around town, freeway, Cruising, That secondary really gets things moving fast.

I have ridden the GL11-1 full throttle going throuh the gears, it is Fast!, More than what you need, More than what I need.

You will surprise a lot of people with it, hell I surprised

Power delivery comes on differently, between the 2 bikes,

this also makes it tough to compare, that and having the time lapse in between the rides.

If you Full throttle both Bikes then it is Torque Vs Horsepower and i am not even sure about that.

If i had to sat the GL1100-1 against GL1100-4 the Single would win hand down.

If I had to say which one between the GL11-1 and the GL12-4, How Long a distance? This is difficult.

If i had the say I would say that, The GL11-1 seamed faster than the GL12-4.

Before i had ridden the GL11-1, My thought is that the GL11-1 would be faster to a Point, then the 4 carb. would take over, but that 32DFT has provided plenty of top end.

With the Single carb You may have upped the Top end some, I took the GL11-1 to 110mph, it was still going, I will not be the one to provide a top end test. That nearly scared the schnitzle out of me, I think 130mph could be accomplished
The top end

Other things I can report on

Cold Start up
GL1200 1/2 choke, push button started up, ran a little rough, like a cold oldwing does, Let run at 1/2 choke for 2 minutes, removed choke/enrichment, ran it at Idle for another 3 minutes at idle.
engine was spitting, and running as a cold wing does.

Then got on pulled away, engine still spitting some engine needed some choke back on, 1/4 choke on, ran slow to warm up to full operating temp maybe 5 minutes of riding normal cruising,

Cold Start up
GL1100-1 No Choke so i did not even bother Pumped throttle 4 times, (I am still experimenting with best cold start method) push the the Make fire button, she started fast, i gave a very small pump, she stopped, gave 2 pumps restarted, then about 6 small pumps to keep it running, then hold on at 2k rpm.

Note: At this point the engine was very smooth and ran at 2K very good even as the 2 minutes barely started it was much better than the GL12-4 did by the end of the 2 min.

I Let the GL11-1 run there at 2k for 2 minutes, then idle for another 3 minutes, just Like i had done with the GL12-4

The GL11-1 was ready to ride, it did not seem to be cold blooded at all, by the way it was running, it was a smooth runner, but i still took it easy till up to Operating temp

Restart of both engines

I let them both sit for about 10 minutes each
GL12-4 took was not as happy to restart and took a couple of milliseconds longer on the starter, there was a definite difference.

Note: No throttle Pump is needed for restart at all, I was afraid i would flood it, if i did because it is so fast restarting, I have never flood the engine up on start.
GL11-1 , it Was very easy, and Very Fast restart restart is INSTANT!!, with very short time on the starter was used

 

[westgl]

I have Not attempted any tuning of the 32DFT carb. at all, other than adjusting the idle speed to 1000-Rpm, out of the box it was idling at 2000 rpm at first start.
This is the Carb. straight out of the box.

Tomorrow,
I will make a adjustment to the carb.

I will adjust the Idle Mixture screw, to try and get the highest rpm then reset the Idle speed screw again.

and re-tweek the idle mixture again till right.

 

[joedrum]

hmmmmm great great westgl it don't get better than that on test ... that was well worded ...yes this was a seat of pants test of a new deal ... imsure your comparisions knowledge will grow as you get more seat time

for me it is and the 740 and c5 and the moded 1200 hooch things are starting to look huge for me ...

this has got to be one of the best overall bike improvments in all categories and ways of looking at it ....and im not trying to pump me up at all

when I started getting hints of total reliability with this set up ....not a hooch trademark so far ..LOL and gobs of power everywhere ...there is no comparision to any wing really ...

dependent iggy and dependent carb system .. put together is total unreliability and poor working at best ....the weber and c5 set up in total non dependent systems ....couldn't be any bigger difference ....my seat of the pants will be hitting the saddle soon :mrgreen:

 

[westgl]

How the GL11-1 rides with Single Carb

I wanted to provide some real world riding info.

This carb is 2/3 Primary and 1/3 secondary, secondardary comes on quick

but if you could not hear that secondary, and closed your eyes, you would just feel the power surge, it has a extremely smooth transition into the secondary.

Driving around on Primary only,
I did some more putting around, just cruising around town (No Full throttle) or getting into the secondary at all, i wanted to get a better feel of the bike and how it rides on the Primary only

For me this is a sweet bike on the primary only, enough power to get around good, to me for nomal getting around town, cruising, you could ride around all day long just on the primary only

If i had only the primary on this carb it would still be a very mild mannered super smooth bike, that would have enough power for 90% of getting around.

Eventually, I will try very hard to only use the primary for a more economy style of riding, through out a few tanks of gas.

This will be difficult.

But you kick in that secondary and you just went from DR. Jekyll, Straight to, Mr. Hyde.

 

[westgl]

I agree with you Joe,

Trying to compare it to any other Goldwing is Complicated, and very hard to do, It ain't like nuttin else you have ridden before.

Sorry guys I hate to use this comparison,it's Torque is like a Big V-twin Torque, HD style torque only More of if in larger doses.

I had a Suzuki M109R, and a C109R, These are Beasts 130h.p. & 130lbs ft torque It is LIKE THOSE!! Good torque, and just pull well.

I am not saying our Single-wings have those power figures, I have no idea where power figures are, there's just more of it, and smoother

joedrum » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:43 pm[/url]":2p4amjvd]
hmmmmm great great westgl it don't get better than that on test ... that was well worded ...yes this was a seat of pants test of a new deal ... imsure your comparisions knowledge will grow as you get more seat time

for me it is and the 740 and c5 and the moded 1200 hooch things are starting to look huge for me ...

this has got to be one of the best overall bike improvments in all categories and ways of looking at it ....and im not trying to pump me up at all

when I started getting hints of total reliability with this set up ....not a hooch trademark so far ..LOL and gobs of power everywhere ...there is no comparision to any wing really ...

dependent iggy and dependent carb system .. put together is total unreliability and poor working at best ....the weber and c5 set up in total non dependent systems ....couldn't be any bigger difference ....my seat of the pants will be hitting the saddle soon :mrgreen:

 

[joedrum]

:smilie_happy: yes this feature is just total upgrade over stock system big time ... what a relief to have stock carbs out of the picture and all the cost to limp them along :heat:

 

[ekvh]

M109 must be a 7-800lb bike, so with less than 600lb bike, less torque will feel similar. You still have stock cams, right, West?

 

[westgl]

The M109 is a 1800cc 4valve head twin 800-lb gorrilla, but it is a very fast gorrilla, it has 2 oil pumps in that engine front & rear,

M109R is claimed to have the Largest Piston dia. of any Gasoline vehicle, not just bike.

I bought a Complete M109R engine/trans, all electrical, swingarm, rear drive, & wheel, rear wheel is a 260 wide, But a 280 can fit on that rim.

It was from a wreaked bike, it has 1200 Miles, on the speedo, oh yea got that and some other stuff off of that bike basically its like New

That is another Reverse Trike Project coming up, i have a 1999' Mazda Miata front end suspension including disc brakes, calipers.

I have projects slated for me way out so i cant die.

ekvh » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:14 pm[/url]":32pn7h7a]
M109 must be a 7-800lb bike, so with less than 600lb bike, less torque will feel similar. You still have stock cams, right, West?

 

[westgl]

I have stock cams in my 83' GL11-1

I am not going to change them yet,

I did do some Mild porting, when i had the heads off, I was surprised at how rough the inside of the head ports are, same with the Manfold-Ends,

they are a little crude inside, with ledges that protrude into the ports.

I did NOT polish, just smoothed out irregularities

I dont think those ledges are there for better Mixture swirl effect, like GM does with their heads,

No i think it is Fast paced Manufacturing Process.

Look at the manifold-ends sometime from the outside, Feel around them in the back area you can feel the ledge in the back on the out side.

They cleaned up the outside much more than the inside, it almost looks like a two piece manifold the ledge is the separating line

I just removed the ledges and imperfections

That VW Manifold, has some too, took the dremel tool with a finer grinding bit, to just clean things up.

If you look at some my posted pic you can see down into the plenum, and see my grind marks, removed the extra mold flashing

To smooth the flow out, and get rid of turbulence.

Faster in, faster out.

ekvh » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:14 pm[/url]":79rt34cc]
M109 must be a 7-800lb bike, so with less than 600lb bike, less torque will feel similar. You still have stock cams, right, West?

 

[ekvh]

Wow, that beast has four valves?! I wanted one of those a while back. I am debating this mod with myself. My bike is like Joe's, 100 more cc's and a little higher compression. Not sure whether to go 32dft or 740. We also have higher lift cams which probably flow better at high rpm. It's outta my league to figure out. I will have to make my best guess. I have to make a guess and go for it. I have five sets of carbs. I may as well sell a few on fleabay.

 

[westgl]

The 32DFT is a 740 carb. also

if you order a 740 carb you may get

any of the three, as i have seen all three advertized as a 740

This is a No Brainer, for me, a New carb. vs Old Unknown carb.

My new 32DFT runs flawless in every way.

I will be putting one on my GL1200 project

It is the difference between 24/25mm throttle plates or 32/32mm.

You have the motor for the 32DFT, I have a GL1100 that is only mildly ported, it runs awesome on mine

There is two other guys running the 32DFT now on the Steve Saunders site, one of them also has a modified motor, the throttle response is fast and flawless

The other 740 carb is a 32/34 DFT

these are all 740 carbs, with the same jets

Joe,!! learned something about the 32/34dft tapered choke, is 24/25, and not a 22/22.

The 32dft version of 740 carb. you can get it New, no one has "F"ed with it, pr rebuilt it wrong or halfa$$ed, a rebuilt carb, can still leak, through the worn throttle shafts and poor fitting top plate, or other spots.

I think the throttle plate bushings leaking on the OEM carb rack may be a reason for some problems, those are felt seals that are not renewed in anyone carb rack rebuild kit.

and other possible worm in the can of a rebuilt carb.

You have a larger motor, better performance cams, The 32dft would be a good choice, you will not have to do any jetting at all Period!!!

It will run perfect! right out of the Box!!!

ekvh » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:30 pm[/url]":17xpt4tr]
Wow, that beast has four valves?! I wanted one of those a while back. I am debating this mod with myself. My bike is like Joe's, 100 more cc's and a little higher compression. Not sure whether to go 32dft or 740. We also have higher lift cams which probably flow better at high rpm. It's outta my league to figure out. I will have to make my best guess. I have to make a guess and go for it. I have five sets of carbs. I may as well sell a few on fleabay.

 

[Dave_J]

If I had a set of forks for my 80 GL1100i, I'd be doing this mod and more. Too bad my extra set of Burgman 650 forks will not fit.

 

[westgl]

One thing i forgot to mention is

the New 32DFT, comes jetted for our GL 4cyl engines, and runs Great right out of the box.

It also has had Most of the extra stuff that is not needed for GL-4s is removed.

parts removed,
Solenoid, and a vacuum diaphragm and Plugs have been put in to seal from vacuum leaks

Dont take my work for it.

On the Steve Saunders Goldwing site regarding this Carb conversion there are two other guys running this same New 32DFT carb.

You can see their reviews and judge for your self ask them some questions.

There are 2 more guys that are buying there parts, also for this conversion, using the 32DFT it easy to get, and New.

A new rebuild kit for the 32DFT carb if you need to rebuild that carb in 10+ years or so is $25.00 including shipping

 

[joedrum]

okay eric ...the 740 like I have dose have more air flow ...22-22 verses 24-25 ...and same jetting ...im not sure how much more air that is ... but I can tell you ... its seems to mean about 300 cc in auto motors that use this carb .... I think this carb is right on the brink of to much air ... but that might be just right for us ....im not having any trouble what so ever in getting carb to work ...as stated I do think this the max carb that could be used .... eric your motor is also maxed out 1200 is the same way ... so by circumstance this is the carb ive got and using ....im okay with that air difference ....as I know already it works with room to grow or reduce ... both being very simple to do ....

 

[ekvh]

Next up: a road trip to see what mileage they're getting. You could disconnect the throttle rod to the second barrel to keep the twitches in the wrist down. I'd like to try this right away, but old man winter is eying up my wallet already.

 

[westgl]

One Thing I am not sure i mentioned about the OEM stock carb. Rack GL1100

The OEM4 rack GL1100 is much different than the OEM 4 rack GL1200,

In taking off from a stop.

The GL1100 W/ OEM4 rack Must be revved higher, to get away from a stop, to me this was always a little anemic, and lacked power/torque in this area.

My GL1200 Never did that, it had the extra torque from a Dead stop, and i did not have to rev it that extra amount

NOW with the single carb GL11-1

Getting away from a stop
The GL11-1 has surpassed the the GL12-4 in getting away from a stop.

No extra power is needed to get away from a stop, I would say that more precaution should be taken with the single carb, as it might take you by surprise in getting away from a stop especially if the road is a dirt or gravel road.

You can let out the clutch at Idle, and idle away from a stop