smoke coming out of ignition module?

[Denver]

Or plug?

 

[83gl1200]

I think this project has met a trajic end. That intermittent miss wouldn't go away switching plugs caps or lines and had spark the way it was, and may be more than intermittent. I thought maybe the rings were clogged with carbon so tried the water down the carb trick. I used a 20oz water bottle and kept the rpms between 2-3k, put 2 bottles of water in slow enough not to stall the bike out and ended up with water in my crankcase oil. It did seem to help smooth out the engine but then the next morning same problem, cyl 4 stays cold while others heat up. Seems that it doesn't start firing cyl 4 until the bike is warm if at all.

I can only guess that this motor probably needs new rings and cylinders honed and I'm guessing that requires engine out and disassembled.

I think I just wasted all this time and money for nothing.

Am I right? Is this project dead in the water? I don't have tools or skills to do new rings and hone cylinders.

 

[sgq700]

more times than not , it isn't the rings! if it has stuck rings, you just need to go run the snot out of it for a while, not just down the street but get it out on the hwy and run it hard for at least 100 miles each way and then check it out. if your problem is low compression, then you may have a burnt valve,valve too tight or something as simple as a piece of crap stuck on a valve seat not letting the exh valve seat!! if it were a intake valve, it would back fire through the carb so bad you could not give it gas under a load! so on the short side, go run a couple of tanks of gas through it HARD before you throw in the towel, change the oil first and know that the old water down the carb trick really does nothing these day's! gas,oil and carbon deposits are nothing like they were before they quit making real oil and gasoline!! go have fun, beat it up and then figure what way to go

 

[joedrum]

hmmmm ...well not enough info to say its dead ....if the motor is not knocking or making bad noises then it worth trying to figure out why the one cylinder is not working ..could be just blown head gasket there ....could be runner leak....but i understand if you think its to much this bike is modded big time by PO ....

 

[sgq700]

Great Point Joe !!! i never even thought about a head gasket? i don't know it it is old timers syndrome or a blond moment!!

 

[83gl1200]

Head gasket, duh, I didn't think of that either... I think I can fix it if that's the problem, that gives me hope. But which head gaskets would I use on the hybrid engine, 1100 or 1200 head gaskets? Would you insist on only honda oem head gaskets? Is there anything special I should watch out for when putting it back together, do I have to modify head gaskets or do anything special to make passages line up for 1100 heads on 1200 block or to give clearance for the 1100 valves?

So how would you proceed with troubleshooting? Change oil, check valve gap, run it hard for a couple hundred miles and if that doesn't straighten it out then take the head off? Or would you skip running it more and go straight to pulling the head?

It keeps getting fuel in the oil also, over time my oil level rises. I put only 35 miles on it so far and after that I could tell the oil level rose because it started spitting more oil than normal from my cracked tach cable. Then I tried the water trick and got water in the oil also. I'd hate to change the oil again just to contaminate it again.

A stuck valve wouldn't let water or fuel into the oil right? I think water and fuel in my oil rules that out, it must either be getting past the rings or past the head gasket right?

 

[slabghost]

getting water and fuel in the oil. I'd say pull the heads right away. Look for a bent valve or piston damage along with the possible ring issue. Vesrah gaskets have a good reputation and oem. 1100 or 1200 gaskets will work with 1100 heads on a 1200.

 

[ekvh]

You need 1200 head gaskets to match the openings of the 1200 piston. 1100 would leave a ring to ignite. The holes all line up, because there ain't no holes on the block side. I suspect you might find the PO may have stuck this thing together without checking piston clearances and bent a valve or three. IF you have an 1100 fuel pump, could that be leaking and letting gas in the oil that way? Never heard of it on a Wing, but cars will do this.

I should go back and read, but have you done a compression test?

You really did buy the bike from He!!, except while in He!! they swapped a whole bunch of pieces and didn't write anything down. I suppose if I kicked off tomorrow someone might say the same about mine.

 

[joedrum]

well first thing id do is check for compression in bad cylinder ... even if it was with my thumb .. plugs out ....if that seemed okay ..id check that runner for leaking air somewhere .. if there spark like you say there is ....is what id do first .... leaking runner causes raw gas in a single set up ....

 

[Denver]

What's the old #'s??? 85% electrical,12-13% fuel, 2-3% mechanical. Old adage from before my time, some things tend to stay the same.

 

[83gl1200]

ekvh » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:52 pm[/url]":3f5mgmdm]
You need 1200 head gaskets to match the openings of the 1200 piston. 1100 would leave a ring to ignite. The holes all line up, because there ain't no holes on the block side. I suspect you might find the PO may have stuck this thing together without checking piston clearances and bent a valve or three. IF you have an 1100 fuel pump, could that be leaking and letting gas in the oil that way? Never heard of it on a Wing, but cars will do this.

I should go back and read, but have you done a compression test?

You really did buy the bike from He!!, except while in He!! they swapped a whole bunch of pieces and didn't write anything down. I suppose if I kicked off tomorrow someone might say the same about mine.

It has an electric fuel pump, so no problem there. I did check compression before starting work on the bike and at that time it was around 155 on all cyl, but that was after soaking the cyl's with marvel mystery oil so I could have gotten a better reading than normal thanks to mmo. I had to send that compression tester back to amazon though because it wouldn't hold pressure, its relief valve leaked. None of the auto parts stores have rentals with the right threads for this bike so can't just go rent one to check it again, would have to order another online.

It runs well aside from the one cyl and makes no bad sounds, so I hope I wont find a bunch of bent valves.

***It was overheating before I put in a new oil pump though, and I've read before that will ruin head gaskets quick.**** I think thats why it failed after my initial compression tests. It was running on all cyl there for maybe 10 minutes before blowing the cdi, because it was making great power and ran smooth. I think the overheated head gasket gave up during my first 20 mi run.

Yes I think this may be the bike from helI, if there were such a thing as hell which of course there isn't because naturally superstitious monkeys just made hell up. We will know for sure if after all this work it gets me killed in a car wreck before letting me enjoy at least one good ride.

The damn thing also might need a new clutch as soon as I do get it running properly. I barely pull the lever at all and the clutch releases. Maybe I should set it on fire and move on before it puts me in an early grave or steals my last ounce of sanity.

 

[Denver]

Sanity is over rated I M H O !!! Just keep thinking & working, TRY not to get too frustrated, & ask others for input. Let things settle in your thoughts, the outcome is something of your own making, kind of enjoyable to my thinking. :thank_you:

 

[83gl1200]

Before pulling the head I went over everything one more time, and thanks to Joe's suggestion of checking compression with a finger if that's all you have I found it had compression on that cyl.

As it turns out, that spark plug sparked fine when laying on the block but for whatever reason wouldn't actually ignite the cylinder. I thought I had tried swapping plugs to other cylinders because i did pull them and didnt keep track to put them back in the same spot but that plug must have randomly made it back into the same cyl. I tried it in another cyl and the symptoms followed the spark plug, tried another plug in no 4 and it fired instantly.
After I was done dancing with glee I went to the auto parts store, spent $10 on four new NGK plugs, and ripped up a few miles of riding just to confirm it had full power again and it did.

I have put about 50 miles on since then and it managed to stay working, no more overheating ignition module either, so I took it into dmv and invested in registering and titling it.

It's taken forever but finally its running good. Thank you all.

60 mph in 4th gear only takes 3500 rpm, 5th gear is best for 65+.

After all this time it is finally paying off. However the bike still looks like total crap, I spent so much time and money on mechanicals that cosmetics are suffering. And technically I still have more wiring to deal with before I can fix cosmetics, none of the lights or turn signals work except brake light.

 

[ekvh]

This superstitious monkey is happy for you. I am glad to hear of the rpms as this is a bike I am working on right now. An 83 with a 1200. Im going to start with 1100 heads from the 83 and then I can always put 1000 cams in if I choose. You are not the first to chase a bad plug for a while. Several posts at NGW in recent years with NGK for the most part.

 

[Ansimp]

Great to hear that you are almost there :good:
:moped: :moped: :yes:

 

[slabghost]

Congratulations!

 

[joedrum]

great 831200 ....this project finally made a turn to the positive......great job this was is a tough project to get in mid stream....you about went down but managed to overcome opcorn: :beer:

 

[83gl1200]

Thanks guys.

Joe, the numbers I posted on rpm/mph were slightly wrong. It turns 4krpm in 4th to go 60mph, not 3500rpm. 5th gear gives 55mph at 3k rpm. It seems to make its best power above 3500rpm though and really pulls hard from 4k to 6krpm then the single barrel carb starts to show its limits over 6k.

It doesn't ride or sound like a couch on wheels, it rides and feels like a true muscle bike. This bikes suspension is also a bit too stiff so far. I put progressive 412's on the back, need to try lowering spring preload to soften the rear. The front also feels too stiff but that may just be because I still haven't flushed the forks and changed oil in them yet.

Its a really fun ride though, quite a shock coming from a 250 with 17 max horsepower. I have caught air accidentally on a couple of bumps not realizing how fast its going. I may need to carry spare underwear when I do finally put the weber carb on.

 

[83gl1200]

Unfortunately that custom looking tach drive on my bike that nobody recognized was just a cut down 1100 fuel pump mount made up or two pieces held together with jbweld on the inside. It leaks oil like mad. I tried to fix the leak by taking it off and resealing it with liquid gasket, but that just made it leak worse.

Can anyone donate a complete fuel pump and pump/tach drive mount to seal up this leak? It doesn't have to work at all, because the camshaft doesnt have whatever used to be there driving the pump, all i need it to do is just stop the oil leak. I don't even care if it has a working tach drive.

The ones on eBay that come with all the parts I need are over $20 plus shipping, and since I can't even use the pump its hard to see paying that kind of money.

My only other option would be to take an angle grinder to the camshaft and cut off whats left of the tach drive gear sticking out of the head and make a flat block off plate from flat metal to cover up the hole. I'm not sure if I could chop off the camshaft end without removing it completely though, and I cant remove the camshaft until I can also buy a feeler guage and torque wrench to reinstall it.

Any rusty crusty non working fuel pump would be fine.

 

[joedrum]

hmmmm ...ok ...the other option is to put open cam seal in the head .. when there is machanical drive fuel pump stoch this seal is left out so tack gear and fuel pump get some oil ...it you put the seal there it will stop leaking oil.. but your ideal of old pump is good also ...so is a good working pump too and get rid of electric pump ..dont see this being big deal at all .... previous owner tried hard on his mod to bad it leaks ... might try looking at that again to see why its leaking also ...