Starter motor clutch repair.

[David Mantle]

Hi - has anyone suffered a seized starter motor clutch? For those who have followed my thread on oil cooling the engine , the main reason behind it is because when a head gasket goes and coolant leaks into the oil the resultant sludge , unless thoroughly cleaned and purged can cause the light springs that operate the starter clutch to rust and seize the plunger in place . This has happened to me on not only my Wing but an old CX I bought as a project.

After trying to tease it out I thought I would remove the cover and try and drift out the assembly from the rear

And found that it appears to be plugged and short of drilling out , seems solid.

Just how in heck did Honda machine it in the first place? If I can work that out the solution should be self explanatory.
No amount of cajoling or hitting with hammer after soaking in penetrating oil will shift the plunger. I know that once moved it can be persuaded to come out thus save the assembly.

Any suggestions as what next? I have had it soaked in diesel fuel ( one of the best penetration fluids I know ) , heat from a torch then dipping in ice cold water ( thermal shock can sometimes loosen the grip from dissimilar metals ) and good old fashioned brute force and ignorance ( big hammer and drift ).

As previously said this has happened before and I had to by a complete alternator rotor in order to have a working clutch assembly because I could not locate the specific starter clutch as a separate entity .

How have other forum members solved this problem ? All suggestions , no matter how odd , shall be gratefully received and considered with deference and respect . I sincerely believe that everyone can benefit from this because it has to have happened to others . Unless of course I am the unluckiest son of a gun alive.

 

[scdmarx]

Have you tried bees wax? Works pretty good on stuck bolts.

Actually, I think you're screwed. But I've never been there-done that myself.

 

[David Mantle]

Have you tried bees wax? Works pretty good on stuck bolts.

Actually, I think you're screwed. But I've never been there-done that myself.

I do not think it is a bolt. It might be a plug that has been shrunk in from hot but can not work out how to remove it aside from attacking with a drill. Then comes the problem of re-sealing the hole so that the spring has something solid to bear against.
Thanks for the suggestion though. :wave:

 

[joedrum]

there sould be some parts break down on the forum ...once I seem that id be going after it ...it would either be apart or destroyed .... :builder: .... :yahoo: ... :swoon: ...one or the other

 

[David Mantle]

From what I have seem on various parts diagrams the starter clutch is only available as an entire unit with the repair items separate. No pictorial help with its construction.
I think I might try and drill out the plug , if that is what it is , then thread and insert a grub screw. I can not think of any other solution.

Shoot - how about drill a small hole through the plug then use a small diameter drift or drill and PUSH the plunger out instead of trying to dislodge from outside? That way I reckon I should be able to save the support for the spring. How does that sound?

I will try tomorrow cause me and wifey are going out tonight for a meal and a drink with friends and I dare not get dirty , hehehe.

 

[dan filipi]

I'm thinking the spring seat is like a plug pressed into the housing at the assembly.
I'm just guessing really.

I've seen parts frozen with nitrogen and the other part heated during assembly.

 

[Ansimp]

Be careful as I believe those components are hardened steel

 

[David Mantle]

I'm thinking the spring seat is like a plug pressed into the housing at the assembly.
I'm just guessing really.

I've seen parts frozen with nitrogen and the other part heated during assembly.

That is my thought also - can`t see any other way of it being constructed. I know that parts assembled this way are very hard , if not impossible , to shift.
Just tried drilling through with carbide tip HSS drill. No joy.
I will keep trying to sort this somehow because i hate to be beat LOL.

 

[David Mantle]

I had another go at drilling that plug except this time I used a sharp ( new ) drill bit. Geesh - it cut through like a hot knife through butter.I had to use a drill larger than the hole in the plunger but smaller than the diameter of the spring.

Then pushed out with screwdriver of appropriate diameter. :beg:

Then out she came . :heat:

When reassembled it important to replace the cover that I cut off to remove. It can be repaired by either spot welding and grinding clean or by penning with a hammer so that it grips the outer surface of the assembly. It is needed to ensure the rollers have a good guide to run in so that it works smooth and reliable. There should be no reason why it can not be modified however to improve the lubrication of the rollers and springs. As standard it just relies on a simple splash feed via a small hole and groove which I feel can be improved upon. Reading many threads in the archives show to me that this is an area of concern to some members and I would just like to give some food for thought.

Now I do not know how forum members feel about this sort of repair but I think that there must be circumstances , or will in the future , be occasions when this part is effectively knackered and maybe a bike is permanently off road for the sake of no starter clutch simply because they are non-available for one reason or other. I think that I might be able to give hope to those in a similar circumstance as myself. Besides I hate spending money when there is a feasible repair available.

Thanks for taking the time to read this :hi:

 

[carl62cycles]

I had another go at drilling that plug except this time I used a sharp ( new ) drill bit. Geesh - it cut through like a hot knife through butter.I had to use a drill larger than the hole in the plunger but smaller than the diameter of the spring. :beg:

View attachment 1

Then pushed out with screwdriver of appropriate diameter. :beg:
View attachment 2

Then out she came . :heat:


Now I do not know how forum members feel about this sort of repair but I think that there must be circumstances , or will in the future , be occasions when this part is effectively knackered and maybe a bike is permanently off road for the sake of no starter clutch simply because they are non-available for one reason or other. I think that I might be able to give hope to those in a similar circumstance as myself. Besides I hate spending money when there is a feasible repair available.

I always wandered if it would be posible to install the old gl1000 kick starter assembly. Just like the kz400 that had kick & starter option. :headscratch:I'll leave that to joedrum to answer. Nice going on that locked up assembly :good:

 

[David Mantle]

I think the GL1000 has a different rear case and gearbox - maybe another member could enlighten us further.

 

[carl62cycles]

I think the GL1000 has a different rear case and gearbox - maybe another member could enlighten us further.

It certainly will have.maybe the tranny portion would be the toughest to mod.and frame clearance for kickstart just came to mind.

 

[joedrum]

hmmmmm ive never look into this ....great work by the way david....but off the top of ny head id say there a good chance a 1000 kicker back cover it would fit a 1100 .....

 

[David Mantle]

hmmmmm ive never look into this ....great work by the way david....but off the top of ny head id say there a good chance a 1000 kicker back cover it would fit a 1100 .....

Should it fit would you consider it a permanent fix ? Will the electric start work again ? >

 

[joedrum]

it sould do as the 1000 dose ...electric or kicker start ...but like I said ...we will have to look into this some ...I don't think the tranny will be involved in this mod ....its all in the rear cover ....im thinking people have switched to kickers in 78-79 motors to be put in 75-77 bikes ....the 78-79 had lower end improvements ...that made it better than 75-77...the1100 had some more improvements ....but is essentially a bored out 1000....and I don't think the changes involve this part of the motor could plug and play ...but I have never seen it done hmmm this may be another classic first

 

[David Mantle]

Plug and play is an easy solution but not always possible - I just offered an alternative. Besides not many kick-starters and gears are available today.

I know I am not the sharpest tool in the box but I can think laterally . Sometimes this can be an advantage.

This was just a thought - hope it helps. And if it doesn`t ......TOUGH ,, it`s all I got to offer

 

[Steve83]

Another issue is that the kick starter on the 1000 is where the ignition pulsers are on the 1100. You would need to change cams and go with a head-mounted ingition setup. I believe the crankshaft is also different...

Nice work with that clutch, Dave! The few that I've taken apart have had very little - if any oil in the spring bores.

 

[joedrum]

ahh yes david good call there

 

[David Mantle]

Thanks Steve - I have already mounted my ignition on the head as per 1000 motor. Also fitted early ( 1978 ) cams. I just got pissed off with troubles with starter motor clutch hence modifications suggested . I just hope others appreciate my humble ideas.

 

[carl62cycles]

Are there any photos of the rear engine with kickstart here on classicgoldwing ?? :beg: :beg: Who's got a kicker gl1000 step forward!! :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy: