Still having trouble with #1 plug fouling

[kirkwilson]

No, I swapped the domes and pistons from #1 to #2, plus all the jets and air bypass stuff. Didn't make any difference so I swapped them back and that's when I raised the floats which didn't help either. So today I'm swapping the whole carb out.

 

[kirkwilson]

YEAH ME!!!!!!

Sorry, just had to do that and it felt GOOD!!!!!. I pulled my carbs again and finally split up the rack and replaced my #1. There's a big difference between keeping the rack together and swapping parts and splitting the rack up and replacing carbs- (for a newby)...

I left #2 & #4 together so all I did was split the right side, put in a new (used) #1, and put it back together. Hardest part was getting the throttle linkage between #1 & 3 back together- the little fork thingy ( I just love using technical terms nobody else can understand) on #3 has to fit between 2 washers on the sync bolt on #1 and it's a bitch- took about 5 tries and about an hour to get'er done. Bolted the carbs together, bolted the plenum together, got the linkage together. I hooked the carbs to the bike's fuel pump and cranked for a minute or 2 then measured the fuel in each bowl- all were about the same in my supercalibrated pickle relish jar. And I had no leaks so the carbs went back on the bike- ( did I mention I'm getting really good at this? I think I did) and I cranked her for a couple on minutes with the throttle switch off to fill the float bowls. Didn't want to fire so I cranked another couple minutes with the stop switch off then tried it again- slowly but surely she came back to life and with a few throttle linkage adjustments and idle screw tweaks she idles and revs without missing or blowing any smoke.

So tomorrow a new plug goes in and I do my regular 30-40 mile ride and I'll find out if she's fixed or not- if the plug comes out black again I think I'll just put the pointy end in my ear and hit it mith my 2 lb sledge- so if you don't hear back my wife will have a pretty nice parts bike to sell....

 

[dan filipi]

I know what you mean about lining up that linkage, not a fun job!

Damn, I hope this takes care of it!!

 

[joedrum]

good luck kirk .....this is the big test.....

 

[mcgovern61]

Kirk, I'm really rooting for you!! :yahoo:

But......just in case, :read: tell your wife to keep me on your parts list!! :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy:

 

[dan filipi]

Kirk, I'm really rooting for you!! :yahoo:

But......just in case, :read: tell your wife to keep me on your parts list!! :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy:

yeah me too!!

Hey where's a picture of your bike come to think of it so I can make my wish list :read: :smilie_happy:

Good luck bro, I have a good feeling about this :yahoo:

 

[Winger 82]

:cool!: We're pullin for ya
Maybe we should all start callin ya Emmit (showin my age here) anybody else know who I'm talkin about ?????????????
Winger 82 :hi:

 

[kirkwilson]

Right back at ya brother I don't live too far from Mayberry both in distance and the way we live... Can't wait for that ride tomorrow- better to burn out than rust away........

 

[kirkwilson]

By the way Winger just noticed you're from Meadville- I'm from the 'Burgh- I used to go out there to watch the Outlaw sprint track races- wasn't that in Meadville?

 

[kirkwilson]

Plug was black-

Tried the plug/ hammer thing and even that didn't work.... plug just sailed right out the other ear...

 

[joedrum]

well kirk i think we can eliminate the carbs ...... you did a compression test right ...... i would just run it for awhile .... its diffenitly a war going on here ...you have done everything to the carbs excrpt wrap up every joint between carb and head ....you can run the mixture screw in 50% and thats about it ....after that its the ignition thats all thats left caps wires and coils .....at this point id go for the hei ignition mod that gives you twice the spark and you can gap the plugs more .....i dont know its your call ....i feel for you :beer: :headscratch:

 

[Winger 82]

By the way Winger just noticed you're from Meadville- I'm from the 'Burgh- I used to go out there to watch the Outlaw sprint track races- wasn't that in Meadville?

kirkwilson Not real sure, would you know where abouts they raced at ?? Alot of things went on here when I was a kid, just don't recall.
Winger 82 :hi:

 

[mcgovern61]

Kirk, is it possible that there is a crack in the head? You have switched sides for everything including carb stuff, but the same condition keeps happening in the same cylinder. The only thing not moved or switched is the heads. (Not that I am recommending switching heads!)

Back to the same issue. You have switched everything with the carbs, ignition, plugs. That leaves the valve seats, heads, rings and block. The exhaust valve may be leaking through the seat. The head gasket could have a leak, but I am inclined to look at the valves first. Air mixture is wrong for some reason, so what can change the mixture in that one cylinder only. It has to be isolated to that one cylinder.

 

[dan filipi]

Could it be oil not gas?

How about oil getting past a valve guide and running on the plug, are they in a position they can do that?

 

[mcgovern61]

Could it be oil not gas?

How about oil getting past a valve guide and running on the plug, are they in a position they can do that?

I think you would end up with an oil fouled plug, not carbon fouled unless I did not understand the fouling.

 

[kirkwilson]

My apologies to Pistol Pete bacause now I don't think it's the carb.

How would I diagnose a leaky oils seal?

 

[kirkwilson]

Looking at my vast collection of black plugs not all are sooty but most are- rub them on your hand and there's a black streak. The latest plug isn't sooty- it almost looks like it has black paint on it. Granted it only has about 40 miles on it- 30 last night and 10 today because of rain. But no missing yet- I guess I'll leave it in and run it until it starts missing.

Maybe I've had 2 problems all along- bad carb and oil seal?

 

[dan filipi]

Looking at a head, oil can't run down onto the plug from a valve seal since the plug is above and to the side of the intake valve:

I had a engine in this frame with a broken oil ring.
It would smoke like a SOB for the first 5 minutes and continue to smoke lightly out the exhaust all the time.
Even with that much oil the plug never fouled so I don't think your problem is oil fouling.

Rule things out:

Compression, GOOD
Oil fouling, NO.
Weak spark, apparently not but when you swapped coils did you also swap the plug cap and wire?

What's left, has to be over rich.Too much fuel to air.

Gas level in bowls is good.
Needle and seat good (not leaking past).
Vacuum slider moving free not being held open.
Air cutoffs in good condition. (These are enricheners, if not closing could allow over rich (I think)
Too high fuel pump pressure over riding needle seat.
Choke plate not fully open. (?)
Some restriction in air supply.
Some other path which would enrichen the mixture.


There is an adjustment for the accelerator pump and a check valve on number 3 carb.
Could number 1 be sucking extra fuel in from the accelerator pump circuit?

Sync/idle mixture screws?
I had number 2 plug running sooty but not fouling. After doing a idle drop and sync it's running clean.

Come on guys, what else could cause an over rich condition on one cylinder?

 

[kirkwilson]

I swapped the coils , the HEI units ( I think that's what they're called- the little metal things by the rectifier), and I got new plug wires and caps from Jim.

I checked my compression with the engine cold. Things do change after the engine's at operating temperature- the oil's thinner, things expand, etc. I'm going to do the compression test again twice- when cold, then right after a ride.

One thing I haven't mentioned is that when I bought the bike, both exhaust's were perfect chrome-wise. Now the chrome on #1 &3 side has started to turn spotted blue but only behind the crossover from #2 &4. The whole exhaust on #2 &4 is still perfect and shiny, and from the crossover up to the head #1 &3 is perfect. Shiny no blueing. When I see that blueing I think 'heat' which normally would mean 'lean'. But it's only on the one exhaust behind the crossover. Could I be getting so much extra fuel from a carb that I've got it burning in the pipe once it meets the hot exhaust from the other side?

Back to your point, Dan-
gas level in bowls is good- I measured it this time after I replaced #1 carb and they were all the same.
Needle and seat good- I think so because I swapped them from #2 to 1 originally no difference now a different carb body I left them in because I've seen that the original Honda ones are the best.
#1 is now whole different carb now- cleaned and polished vacuum slider/ dome / carb body with crumpled aluminum foil as I've seen in the how-tos. Put the domes upside-down,put the spring in, then the slider- pushed the slider and released it to see how far it came back up compared to the other one (I'm using my original #3 and my new (used) #1- They were basically the same- no sticking- some times #1 would come back up a little higher, sometimes #3 would- but basically the same.
Air cutoffs are brand new replaced by Pistol Pete and I am absolutely positive that all the air passages are clean, clear, and working as they should.
Fuel pump I have not checked- but I will do that next- seems like I would see a problem with other carbs if that was it.
I"ve checked the choke- both with the carbs off the bike and after pulling the right side intake runners, opening the throttl, and lookind through the carb to see if the choke plate was partially closed- no.
Air supply- I don't know- I have an aftermarket air filter on it- works for the other carbs- I don't know.
I've adjusted the accel pump to 10mm as per the manual.
Pre-80 bikes didn't have accel pumps- the pump is actuated by the throttle linkage- I guess I could disconnect it and see if the problem goes away.

Thanks, Dan and everybody for the help!

 

[joedrum]

i cant say it enough its the ignition ive been right where kirk is at and was just as convinced it wasnt the ignition his deal is the perfect bike to do HEI ignition mod to if nothing else it wont be for nothing it will be a total upgrade .....when i did mine ....the dyna ignition was a total upgrade over the 1000s ignition not only was it the problem it was twice as good as stock ......i still say its the problem not only do you have play musical chairs with the coils you have to do it with the wires to and also with the two output connection with each coil.....as certain as i am icould be wrong though....

ijust read your post and you done jut about everything on the cheap side you can buy replacment coils from ....icant remember for forty dollars i think you have done everything else