Heads removed....

Otay ya'll...somebody shoot me :swoon: ....I done tore into my 'Wing again.... oh2:

I got the heads off today. I had already pulled the plugs, and dint really see any evidence of steaming, so I ran my video-scope down in the bores, and saw some really clean spots on a couple of the pistons. I just decided it weren't gunna fix itself, so....
Anyway, I got the heads off. It appears to me that the left side gasket may have been pumping combustion gas into the water jacket on the rear cylinder. Now, remember this thing was running fine, but I have oil in the coolant, and I was loosing coolant somewhere. I figure the oil in the coolant is getting there from the water pump seal leak...which I still have to tear into to fix. There is still no evidence of any coolant in the oil, but when I drained the coolant...not much came out....maybe a quart, at most.
I'm still perplexed as to where the coolant was going...is it possible that the combustion leak was pressurizing the overflow enough for it to blow it out while going down the road, and I just dint see it? The overflow hose runs down the frame to just in front of the rear tire.
Anyway..here's the pics I loaded to my Gallery. Any input would be appreciated. :beg:

..is it possible that the combustion leak was pressurizing the overflow enough for it to blow it out while going down the road, and I just dint see it?

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Yes it's possible. My plan is to change the pump and see if it clears altogether.

Judging by the pics I think your on the right track.

extremely possible joel id say ...man your getting a big dose

I know the pics don't really show what I'm actually seeing, but I don't see any obvious gasket failure, but I do see what could be a slight leak spot on the left side head gasket. Idano....I know I was loosing coolant, with no external signs. There is also no obvious signs of coolant in the cylinders, nor is there coolant in the oil. I'm thinking I am chasing two different issues here...the oil in the coolant is probably from the water pump seals leaking. The only explanation I can come up with for the loss of coolant is it is blowing it out the overflow hose onto the road.
In the one pic of the left/rear cyl. side of the block, there is a dark, carbony looking splotch on the water jacket, and there are no such spots anywhere else. That head also seems to have a small section around the chamber ring, where the stainless steel ring is on the gasket that just doesn't look as pronounced as the rest of the head. In other words, there doesn't seem to be a good impression of the ring on the head...if that makes any sense to anyone other than me.
Now...should I use the head gaskets I already have, or should I try to find some Genuine Honda stuff? The head gaskets I have have a graphite-like coating on them, and a good seal around the cylinder, and all of the holes line up nicely. I certainly do NOT wanna do this again...at least not this year!

btw...I dint know there was another bolt on the BOTTOM side of the heads....I fought the first one for a few minutes until I looked and saw it...I think that bottom bolt on that side is prolly a little bent now.... :smilie_happy: oh2:

From the gallery photos, there is a lot more frothy oil in your water than normally from the water pump seal leak (which my '81 engine had). I am under the opinion that there is an exhaust leak into the water system. When my '81 would leak oil into the expansion tank, it would take several hundred miles before it would show up and it would show up only as black oil at the top of the reservoir with a minor amount of emulsified oil/water. It did not show up in the radiator like your pics.

Looking at the picture of the left side of the block, I noticed that the one guide pin is real rusty looking. They should be clean, shiney and oily if anything (just pulled them all on my '81 which has a bad water pump and seal and the guide pins are not rusty). This is just a sign of water getting through up there. Could be just bad gaskets leaking around into the cooling side of the water jacket.

Also, there seems to be a lot of carbon on your piston crowns. Just my observations.

When coolant disappears like this, you really do need a pressure tester. You need to check the cap, and then pressurize the cooling system and wait to see where it comes out at. Only as a last resort would I consider pulling the head and hope to interpret anomalies with the head gasket. On the other hand, that's where the problem might be. About all you can really do at this point is put it back together and hope it's fixed.
This video is from a borescope with the cooling system under pressure. Elusive leak and took an hour under pressure to show itself, but left little doubt in my mind where the coolant was going.
[flv]https://img85.imageshack.us/img85/2504/zhv.mp4[/flv]

After hearing about after market head gaskets in these forums, I know for fact I'd be using Honda gaskets.

Cool vid Ron! :Egyptian:

Joel, do you know if the head gasket were changed in the past? How many miles on the bike? From 100 yards off the beach, they do not look like OEM gaskets. When I pulled my '81 heads, the gaskets stayed intact. When I pulled the heads from my original blown '82 engine, those gaskets also came off intact (and I know they were OEM..27 years on the bike and only 23K miles on that engine...until it ran out of oil!) My point, if not OEM gaskets, it is a real crap shoot and apparently there are a lot of crap head gaskets out there.

Me.......it would be OEM gaskets only.

I agree, buy OEM head gaskets.
I used 2 gaskets from Ebay from a guy who has them made in Taiwan on mine this last time, $25 each but I installed those as a test for reliability reference. They haven't been running very long so I can't say yet.

mcgovern61":1h1c3snh said:

Me.......it would be OEM gaskets only.

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Chicken! :cheeky:

Now would be the perfect time to put a new water pump in it. :good:

scdmarx":3ih4a76g said:

mcgovern61":3ih4a76g said:

Me.......it would be OEM gaskets only.

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Chicken! :cheeky:

Now would be the perfect time to put a new water pump in it. :good:

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Yep...I am a chicken!! :smilie_happy:

New water pump would be the right time! (Also because your front cover gasket is bad at the top....that seems to be where all of the oil is coming from on the front exhaust manifolds and behind the timing covers.)

And he just happens to have that gasket laying around. :clapping:

Yeah...but next thing, ya'll will be tellin me I can't use that one, either.... :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy:
I did find an OE Honda set of head gaskets today, and bought them. $115 for the set, compared to $60 for one. I should have them by Thursday/Friday. I want to get the heads back on before I rip the front end off for the water pump deal. I can't have too much crap floating around the garage....I'll forget where this/that goes....as most of you know.... oh2: :smilie_happy:
I'm hoping that I have all of the seals I need to do the water pump in the full gasket set I bought before, but...it did NOT have the seal for the water pump cover/lower hose fitting. I had to re-use that thing when I did the stator job. It ain't leaking, tho....but it prolly will once I tear it back apart again.

I'm hoping to get this turd back running before the weather turns too hot to ride...as if 107* AIN'T too hot already! :heat: :mrgreen: Got lots of cleanin to do, both on the heads, and the tops of the pistons.
On another tangent....what kind of seals are used for the valve seals, anyway? O-rings? "Umbrellas"? Might as well change them things out, too...I'll be pullin the valves anyway to clean them, so....

OE gaskets on the way.... :Egyptian:


Now...if I could only find a good water pump that dint require me to sell the bike to be able to afford it.... :shock:

Yeah pump is about $130.
Have you checked if the bearing loose?

The valve seals came in the gasket set I bought.
Are you sure you didn't get a package of these?

Ron, at this point, I ain't reel shure of anything! :smilie_happy: I know the kit dint have the shifter seal, as I was gunna replace that too. I'll look again tonite and see if the valve seals are in there. If not, I'll have to find a set somewhere.
Dan, the water pump does have a small amount of play in it...I checked that when I had the engine out before. It has a metal impeller, and that has no pitting, or corrosion on it, but it does move around a little.

AApple":252xg0ly said:

Dan, the water pump does have a small amount of play in it...I checked that when I had the engine out before. It has a metal impeller, and that has no pitting, or corrosion on it, but it does move around a little.

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Metal impeller....I believe they are only on aftermarket water pumps? My '81 and '82 have original pumps and they both have that bakelite(??) style impellers.

Don't know if the metal pumps are aftermarket or a Honda OEM upgrade, it is what Honda sends with Honda packaging.

Decided to get a little work done on the heads today. I got all the valves out of the left side head, and cleaned them up nice and purdy. I did take a little closer look at the gasket on that side, and....I found the bad spot/leak. oh2: Plain as day, too. Don't know why I dint see it before, but, anyway....at least I know fer sher now.
Imma gunna take the heads to the shop and put them in the washer to clean them up. I'm only gunna do one at at time, so I don't get stuff mixed up. I have the valves/springs/retainer locks in separate compartments of a tray I have for trans work...keeps everything really organized.
I did find the valve seals in the gasket kit I bought before, but...no CAM seals. :rant: Guess I'll need to find those dang things now. :fiddle:
I'm hoping I can have this thing back together before wintertime.... :yes: