'84 1200 engine for a '82 GW

[canuckxxxx]

canuckxxxx » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:06 am[/url]":1b1ih7df]
So here is the back of the 1100 and 1200 clutch baskets showing the sprockets. I didn't count teeth but I measured the diameters: 1100 is 59mm, 1200 is 61mm. The sprockets on the oil pumps are the same for 1100 and 1200. So the 1200 oil and coolant pumps are being driven 3% faster than the 1100 pumps. The sprockets are riveted onto to the clutch baskets so I'm not going to mess with that. I guess I will have to use the 1200 basket, although the 1100 basket slides right on.

I also found that the 1100 friction discs do NOT slide into the 1200 basket. I guess I could use the 1200 FDs and the 1100 steel discs on the 1100 centre section of the clutch.

Any thoughts on this?

Correction: the oil pump sprockets are not the same, the 1100 pump sprocket has 28 teeth, the 1200 pump sprocket has 27 teeth. Also I counted the teeth on the clutch basket sprockets: the 1100 has 28 teeth, the 1200 has 29 teeth. So for the 1100 the pump is being driven at the same speed as the clutch whereas for the 1200 the pump is 1.07 times the clutch speed.

 

[joedrum]

If you change both sprockets and chain from 1100 it will hook up ...as the info I’ve heard on this is the 1200 motor coolant and oil flow is like 11% move than 1100 flow.....I’d say this is do to hydro heads on 1200 motors ....I like the 1200 set up and would stick to that ....

 

[canuckxxxx]

joedrum » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:37 pm[/url]":3qt0a49p]
If you change both sprockets and chain from 1100 it will hook up ...as the info I’ve heard on this is the 1200 motor coolant and oil flow is like 11% move than 1100 flow.....I’d say this is do to hydro heads on 1200 motors ....I like the 1200 set up and would stick to that ....

So, Joe, would you not mess with putting the 1100 clutch into the 1200?

 

[joedrum]

I wouldn’t no Brian ...especially if I was going to use 1200 heads ...I’d for sure use 1200 clutch set up .....the hooch bike was super quiet running motor ...even though I was using mechanical heads on the set up ...I always felt the oil flow increase made it quieter

 

[dan filipi]

I put 84 engine in my 83 and kept the 1200 clutch. Just needed to use the clutch actuator cover from the 1100 motor to have cable pull. I also had to modify the cable sheath mounting bracket some but that was simple.

 

[canuckxxxx]

Thanks Dan and Joe...I respect your knowledge and experience :thanks: . It was seeming like a goofy idea to me too oh2: :doh: :blush: . Will put 1200 clutch back in and put 1100 clutch on spare parts self.

 

[canuckxxxx]

Hoping the 1100 heads that I took off the junk motor are good enough to put a n the 1200. My next move will be to clean them up and give them a close look.

But my better half is keeping me busy with Christmas stuff so progress will be slow. oh2:

 

[slabghost]

Don't forget to enlarge the valve reliefs on the pistons when you use the 1100 heads. Bigger valves need more space.

 

[canuckxxxx]

Thanks Slabghost...Merry Christmas :music2: :fiddle:

 

[joedrum]

It’s no big deal Brian ..in my opinion...I’ll be doing that too on the new motor for hooch....be nice to see another hooch like build ...hooch has proved it works well ...with lots of bang for the parts mixing

 

[canuckxxxx]

It's been a while since I posted on this thread so I thought I would do an update. The 1100 heads are not in great shape...mainly some of the guides are worn more than I like. Plus the bike ran so nice with the 1200 heads, for now, I will leave those heads on.

I have the 1100 engine out and the 1200 engine back in my '82 and running nice.

For the clutch I decided to try something that might be goofy but, what the heck, it's a long winter and why not try something. One of the reasons I have not posted since December is that I wanted to do this and see if it worked and it seems to so here is what I did: Since I am using the 1100 rear cover and cable clutch mechanism on my '84 engine, I figured that, maybe the cable clutch mech. might not be moving the plates apart enough because the 1200 clutch has 9 friction plates instead of 8 in an 1100. 1200's come with hydraulic clutch lever and maybe moves more. So I kept the 1200 basket, so the oil pump drive is OE, but put the 1100 clutch inside that basket.

IMG 2067

• canuckxxxx
• Feb 20, 2018

You can see the space at the back of the clutch where the extra plates of the 1200 clutch would be.

The outer face of the clutch ends up at the same level as the 1200 clutch and the same level as the 1100 clutch in the 1100 engine. That is because the "hub" at the back of the 1100 clutch sticks out more than the hub on the 1200 clutch so the outer face of the clutch ends up at the same place. I know this because I took a picture of the clutch lever on the 1100 engine, before I took it apart and compare to the position of the lever on my 1200 engine with 1200/1100 clutch.

IMG 2216

• canuckxxxx
• Feb 20, 2018

1200 on left, 1100 on right
So how does it work? Keep in mind that I have only had it running in the driveway because it is dead of winter here, but so far it goes from N to 1 with only a nice snick, not a big clunk like with the 1200 clutch. And it goes back into N very easily. Clutch take-up is nice and progressive. No weird noises or vibrations.

The proof will be when I can put some kilometers on to see if it stays good. A concern is that it might slip with the higher torque of the 1200 engine so I will just have to wait and see.

 

[joedrum]

Hmmmm that’s a new deal 1100 clutch in 1200 motor ...should work fine

 

[canuckxxxx]

Let me clarify that I used the 1200 steel plates because the 1100 steel plates were slightly too big to slide into the basket.

 

[joedrum]

I’m guessing you change to a 1100 basket and sprockets ? ...im thinking it works out to 12 percent difference....

 

[canuckxxxx]

joedrum » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:48 am[/url]":3kf9k9ne]
I’m guessing you change to a 1100 basket and sprockets ? ...im thinking it works out to 12 percent difference....

No, I used the 1200 basket, to keep the oil pump drive like a 1200. Put 1100 clutch parts inside 1200 basket.

 

[slabghost]

Sounds like it will be a good combination. Can't wait for the ride reports!

 

[canuckxxxx]

Me too. Would be nice to go beyond my driveway. :head bang:

 

[slabghost]

Time will come. Hang in there.

 

[canuckxxxx]

One thing that bugged me about the 1200 engine in my '82 GW is that there is no mechanical drive for my tach. :doh: That junk 1100 engine I got also included a mechanical fuel pump and mount so I decided to see if I could make some kind of an adapter plate to mount it to the right side 1200 head. :headscratch:

I used 1/4" steel for the adapter because the bolts that the pump mount attach with will only have 1/4" of threads to screw into and I figured steel would be more durable and stiffer than aluminum. I used a 1 5/8" hole saw to make the big hole for the pump mount which is a bit small so had to file hole till the mount would fit in.

image

• canuckxxxx
• Mar 1, 2018

Then drilled the holes for the bolts and then cutting the adapter out. The 2 x 6mm bolt holes in the head were bored out and threaded for 8mm bolts. I used flat head machine screws and countersunk them because the pump mount extends over those screw heads.

image

• canuckxxxx
• Mar 1, 2018

image

• canuckxxxx
• Mar 1, 2018

Now I'm working on putting the worm gear, from an 1100 cam for the tach onto the back of the right side 1200 cam. :builder:

image

• canuckxxxx
• Mar 1, 2018

To be continued...

 

[joedrum]

i did that years ago ...adapted 1100 fuel pump and 1000 ignition set up to the 1200 heads ...also put early 1000 cams in them ..as it turned out i never put the motor in bike or try to start it cause the valves once the 1200 heads pump up with oil would kiss the pistons ...i had the plugs out and spun the the motor with a drill i had hooked up to the crank pulley ...i was fooled at first thinking nothing was hitting ..till i spun the motor faster and the lash adjusters started working ...nothin was damaged as i could stop it instantly ...for me that final proof the 1200 pistons had to be knotched if you wanted to use the the early aggressive cams ...and the end for me using the 1200 heads on my hooch bike