C5 ignition-You got to experience it

[moreorless]

slabghost » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:17 pm[/url]":1g8q3puj]

moreorless » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:15 pm[/url]":1g8q3puj]
Hoooo doggie, dems ain't cheap iggies!

Is the best available ever a cheap option? After seeing this first hand in action there's no doubt in my mind I will own several. I'm saving my change already. :mrgreen:

Doesn't mean I wouldn't get one! :yahoo:

 

[C5Performance]

Ansimp » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:02 pm[/url]":1tydf918]
I want to make the Rats Nest available for a true comparison between stock and new c5 ignition. As most of you are aware the Rats Nest is an original 28k mile 81 GW with an additional 5k of hard storming around the south west ( undocumented due to speedo failure). The engine is very sweet and we are running a second hand carby rack from Alex's 80 that were just bolted on and never synced.( they run great, maybe a little rich as no choke on start in CA summer). I think to do the mileage comparison it needs constant speed/revs for 2 tanks of fuel for highway and a similar amount for spirited twisty riding on the same roads for each different test. Then an upgrade with a c5 and do it all over again. Unfortunately the Rats Nest is still in LA and I haven't received import permission into Oz yet ( I need to fill out the paperwork and pay the money) and the shipping company wanted to put her in a container next week ( just got the call today) . So I wont have the Rats Nest or a new C5 ignition to test for quite some time

You were riding in the USA with your bike? I don't get time for reading all the reports. I'd like to fly to Oz and ride around your country!
Honestly we don't have mileage feedback yet. Our ignitions tend to find homes with the tinkering guys who often cannot do fair comparisons.

I wish you the best of luck getting your baby home. It would suck to be without wheels. You are just coming into your summer season, correct? The best way for you to get a FREE C5 ignition is to help me get into the Australian market. :good:

 

[Steve83]

There you go, Tony! All The Right Sparks and C5 Ignitions - a perfect combo!

 

[Ansimp]

If I can help in any way Paul let me know. I am not bike less just GW less atm. I took Red out for a quick strap today (91 CBR1000) and it was excellent even though we are having a spring heat wave atm.

 

[KYWinger]

joedrum » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:46 pm[/url]":23jd87km]
... just a strait discount to someone who has a c5 ...

Joe - what in the world does this mean?

 

[mcgovern61]

C5Performance » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:47 pm[/url]":3cupn2iq]
Honestly we don't have mileage feedback yet. Our ignitions tend to find homes with the tinkering guys who often cannot do fair comparisons.

I agree, that is a problem. I can help!! Send me a C5 ignition to run some mileage and performance tests so that you can have accurate information. I would be more than happy to force myself to ride around the country racking up miles for this testing. That would be a win-win right! :smilie_happy: (I would be glad to be of assistance!)

 

[KYWinger]

Gerry - what a guy....always willing to go the extra mile for CGW.....HA!

 

[joedrum]

to me john I value the seat of the pants opinion ...99% of all oldwing riders have no access to printed documentation of there ride report ...to say 99% of the riders of oldwings comment should be belittled by people who say only the machine can give and account of the ride is just a strait discount to wilcoy ...we here ..members of this forum wanted a ride report from wes to help people with c5 product ....not to be discounted by someone who post here once a yr maybe less ....and with an adgenda of discounting him ....

this is a member first forum unlike others ...you go after and discount a member here you will be told ...as in his follow up post..... he said he got what he expected ....and im glad I gave it to him ...its obvious from his statement he was looking to discount wes to get a response from me or someone ....

and also saying that west was hurting c5 ....was over the top .... plain and simple take a person happy with spending a lot of money that has turn his bike into a different ride and piss all over it with 100% discount...im sure I could have been better with my words ...respectfully to all :mrgreen:

 

[KYWinger]

joedrum » Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:48 am[/url]":2dog92ox]
to me john I value the seat of the pants opinion ...99% of all oldwing riders have no access to printed documentation of there ride report ...

I agree! the 'butt dyno' is a valuable resource!

But... I ALSO agree that before spending a fairly large amount of $$$$$ on an upgrade, it's prudent to ask if there is any supporting documentation. Make sense?

So I guess I'm sayin' I agree with both sides.

Paul: send me AND Gerry free c5's and we'll document the HELL out of it! :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy:

Be well-

 

[Ansimp]

If it is free then people seem to believe that it has no value :yes:

 

[82a]

KYWinger » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:57 am[/url]":2b6o04aq]

joedrum » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:46 pm[/url]":2b6o04aq]
... just a strait discount to someone who has a c5 ...

Joe - what in the world does this mean?

this part should help

its just to dangerous ...people want to know what he thinks about c5 iggy without endangering himself neil come on ...you do what appropriate for the situation....to be discounting that is like I said narrow minded... we all know what he means .

straight up discount(ing) ~ doesn't add up ~ making a mountain outa a molehill etc...

 

[brianinpa]

mcgovern61 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:31 am[/url]":23f0tbet]

C5Performance » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:47 pm[/url]":23f0tbet]
Honestly we don't have mileage feedback yet. Our ignitions tend to find homes with the tinkering guys who often cannot do fair comparisons.

I agree, that is a problem. I can help!! Send me a C5 ignition to run some mileage and performance tests so that you can have accurate information. I would be more than happy to force myself to ride around the country racking up miles for this testing. That would be a win-win right! :smilie_happy: (I would be glad to be of assistance!)

Dad-gumit... Why didn't I think of this! :head bang:

 

[Neil]

Dan, please pull my membership from this site.

I appreciate having been a member here and I have not been very active as was pointed out in a post but as always there were reasons for that. I was not active on other sites either.
I've been very ill for some time. I went through a bi-lateral lung transplant in 2009 and was good for awhile. Then skin cancer caused by the medications and 23 surgeries later most have been removed.
In January of this year I developed a lung fungus and I'm still fighting that but it is better and I'm not gulping for air now.

So, with that being said, there are reasons for people not to make posts every day or several times a week when more important issues are going on.

I was interested in the C5 ignition and came here because this is where he was posting. I wanted to get hard information, not outlandish statements and unsubstantiated claims.

Honestly, the few posts from those that have installed the device have been less than stellar and more like a kid with a new toy. There are some really good wing experts out there and it's curious to me that one of them wasn't given the opportunity to run some real world tests on this, instead he used a person who can't put an entire sentence together.

I'll be watching the net for hard data on the C5 ignition and hope to see it. I'm hopeful it will be impressive, however, I, like a lot of other folk will not put out that kind of money simply by someone with no data saying this is a great product.

With that, G'day.

 

[dan filipi]

Neil, I'll hold up on removing your account until you read my PM.

I agree with you what you say about hard evidence.
Paul and I have talked many hours about this.
He has Dyno printouts which show factual data in performance gains. I'm unsure why he hasn't posted any of that yet but I'd bet that will move up on his list of things to do now.

Within many of the posts about this ignition system there are more specifics about how it works and it's performance gains. Trouble is, just as the single carb and manifold threads go on for several pages, a lot of that information is buried somewhere in one of them.
It's a tough task to keep all this organized. That is why I made a Global Announcement in an effort to help keep these threads on topic.
I'm chatting with the moderators about how to go about sorting these out.
We will most likely start deleting posts that are not on topic but we don't want the forum to be policed like that or become over moderated. We want everyone to feel ok with posting here so hopefully everyone will understand the importance of staying on topic from now on.

 

[C5Performance]

Neil » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:59 pm[/url]":25t0sr75]

dan filipi » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:47 pm[/url]":25t0sr75]
A lot of the capabilities aren't fully documented yet but if you call Paul he will explain in detail what they are.
If you need his cell number send me a PM.
I don't want to post it in the open forum for bots and crawlers to get hold of.

Thanks Dan, that's good information and will help me with my decision. I'll call as soon as I can and discuss it with Paul.

I would like to apologize to Neil for coming across as not caring about his questions. Please excuse the tone of my posts.

After being online for a very short time, I have grown tired of having to "prove" to people just how much horsepower our ignition might add to your motorcycle, when nobody is asking that question of the other companies. Who is going to pay for all those dyno runs? Who's bike am I supposed to use? We try to provide feedback but raw horsepower is just one small part of the equation.

To everyone reading this thread (hopefully including Neil) here is why I don't show dyno runs anymore:

I had actual dyno results posted on our website. They were used against me (questioning the results) when I tried to buy sponsorship at NGW, and since then I have removed the results and have not posted them since. Maybe that was wrong to do but it was my decision.

This does not however, give me an excuse to brush off Neil's request for information. We say the C5 is awesome, we tell wild stories of what it can do, and all he asked was to see unbiased data showing it. He has the right to ask, even if I don't want to give him answers.

For this I apologize. There are many things you can learn from a dyno run, but unless you understand the dynamics, the results can be very deceiving. Plus a dyno chart never shows how fast it starts when cold, how smooth the idle is, or how different the bike runs while going down the road. For that, you must install one and ride it.

For the popcorn eaters, I see 8-10% in rear wheel power on most bikes, with two runs over 20% (one was the Corvette).
I believe most engines would not typically see an increase of over 10%, but there are many variables that affect final numbers.

 

[AApple]

I can't ride a dyno down the hiway.... :moped: :mrgreen:

 

[C5Performance]

AApple » Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:28 pm[/url]":1kzbj20q]
I can't ride a dyno down the hiway.... :moped: :mrgreen:

You bring up an interesting point. I agree with you! People get too caught up in the "show me on paper" comments that just make everyone argue.

Running anything on the dyno can teach you many things:

air-fuel mixture from low to high rpm
rpm versus time (how long does it take to reach a certain engine rpm)
jetting versus torque (how your air-fuel mixture changes the torque curve)
coil or ignition failure (drop off in torque at high rpm due to points bounce or lack of coil saturation)
temp/pressure/torque relations (often we run a machine on different days. Changes in air temp, humidity, and pressure all have effects on torque)

What it does not show:

How quickly an engine starts...especially when cold
idle quality (does it have a steady idle, and how low will it idle without surging or coughing)
mileage
engine sound (yes, you can hear the difference. Individual cylinder firing can be heard. The tone changes with a true multi spark ignition...just ask Joe/Dan/Wilcoy/Skiri and others that are installing them right now.

Lastly - reaction to weather changes (does it run the same on a foggy day as it will when its dry? Cold or hot weather? For those of you thinking weather can't affect points or magnetic pickups, I would argue long and hard that you are mistaken)

What do you use dyno data for?

We study dyno charts, looking for things that make our ignition look better than the competition, right?
Sure that's fun...but the real study for us has been air-fuel mixture changes, and how timing relates to that curve.

More timing advance can improve slight rich conditions. Engines like to be rich for peak power, lean for peak mileage (to a point). Engines actually drop in horsepower when you pass a certain number on the air-fuel chart, and we look for ways to create timing curves that fix common cross over issues in carburetion. GL1000's run very lean until 3,000 rpm and run fairly steady to around 5,000 when there is a slight richness on many bikes, and the power dips. If we advance timing slightly in that area, we can smooth the power curve without expensive carb work.

Ignition improvements dont fix carb issues, but timing adjustments can be used to help inherent deficiencies in carb setup that can be "felt" when riding. A dyno simply helps us discover new ways to make Oldwings run better. That's why we are all here, correct?

So get off the computer and go for a ride already!!