canuckxxxx's Single carb manifold build

[canuckxxxx]

Ansimp » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:43 pm[/url]":3bznw1xy]

dan filipi » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:12 am[/url]":3bznw1xy]
Yes, good pics and progress!

Will you be able to take it for a run?

In 5 months time as per earlier post :moped: :yes:

Will have to put chains on and bundle up to do road test.

snowy weather

• canuckxxxx
• Nov 18, 2013

Not a good day for testing single carb

 

[dan filipi]

Well, your mod should be a good cold tester :doh:

 

[joedrum]

oh well it is what it is nice work your doing ....

 

[canuckxxxx]

Just wanted to let you all know that I ran the bike again until it was warm and idling and used ether spray to check for vacuum leaks. There were not leaks.

But it still has the big bog when I open it up too fast off idle. Is that just the cold plenum or could there be something else at play here? The accelerator pump works because I can see the fuel squirting when I open the throttle. Is the duration of the squirting adjustable? Any other adjustment that I could try?

Dan, did you have bogging before you heated your plenum.

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Brian

 

[Ansimp]

Maybe there is too much fuel from your accelerator pump?....

 

[dan filipi]

I had some bog before adding the heat.

 

[joedrum]

you are experiencing to much air volume and not enough speed to the air to atomize the gas good ...

you are at the spot of make or break for ones that get here ....to be quite honest ...you are very close ... but there are some rather slick moves that have to be made and outcomes analized right for next move ......

now that there is no leaks ...I bet for sure you can play with the choke plates if there stiil on the carb and get it to rev good with out bogging ....

I used a light spring hook to linkage and close it a point that it rev fine and open according to air flow from motor ... mine dosnt need this to run but I still use it as it is the last way to influence on air flow with this set up ....

also on the table is the air speed and opening at the manifold ...in where your at id try to choke down a little maybe ....

there is some jetting issues but this is mostly secondary barrel ...the booging is in the primary right now once it gets working we can move to there ....

somewhere the a jetting thread where I type a lot on the jetting and carb adjustments to read ...

 

[dan filipi]

I experienced amazing things happen after adding heat.
Everything starts smoothing out as it warms up.

Heat also allowed me to go an additional step leaner in the primary jet and one step in the primary air jet.

I haven't had to do any of this futzing with the choke plates and spring like Joe mentions.
If I move the choke plates closed at idle, it dies.

 

[joedrum]

I have to say mine being 1200 is huge difference obviously ...stock rack wouldn't even go ...and they did fine on 1100s moded the same way so im not and you should expect same as my results ...just guilde line

 

[canuckxxxx]

OK guys, thanks for the encouraging comments.

Joe, you must be a mind reader with your "make or break" comments. I was starting to have some second thoughts about the whole single carb. conversion. Maybe that is because, up to now, I have not done anything that cannot be undone and put back to stock. But the next steps might be to punch holes in my cooling systems so that takes some careful consideration.

One problem I need to overcome before I do any more testing is that the outside air temperature is so cold now (10 to 14 F). I would like to get some flexible pipe to route the exhaust outside so I can run the bike inside my heated garage. Have a carbon monoxide detector plugged in close to the bike.

Knowing that there are others like yourself and Westgl who get good performance without heating the plenum makes me think that mine should be running better than it is. I definitely think that heat would make a big difference in the cool climate that I live in.

I want to make sure I have tried everything possible with the setup I have now before moving on so the testing will continue.

Brian

 

[joedrum]

hang tough brian ... the good battle is just starting ... stick with manifold manipulation and jetting the carb right now ... no reason to get invaisive at this time ... when success is better seen only ... your in fine shape ... get this close and the icing issue will be hit then ...is how I see it

 

[Dusterdude]

Brian,try low voltage pipe heating tape,thats what im gonna do with mine

 

[canuckxxxx]

Dusterdude » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:13 pm[/url]":2c365b7o]
Brian,try low voltage pipe heating tape,thats what im gonna do with mine

It would be interesting to try that. There was a guy on another forum that made his own heated grips buy using very thin magnet wire. The wire has a certain resistance per foot. He used the length that would give him the resistance needed to get the watts he was looking for. Maybe the heating element could be put inside the plenum.

It might take a lot of watts to made a difference to the plenum temp. But if the whole thing was well insulated it would take much less power.

I tried having a 120V hot air blower blowing on the plenum for one test but it didn't seem to make much difference. In the time it took me to move the blower out of the way and reach in and feel the plenum it was ice cold.

Brian

 

[dan filipi]

Air doesn't transfer heat very well.
Direct contact from a heat source does much better. Something like the plenum mounted to the engine would be better than heated air.

 

[joedrum]

well I seen where captian discount said that everything is jetted perfect for 1100...and your bike is at fault ...and mention ignition advance....did you hook the vacume advance line from rear ignition to the weber carb ...It dosnt bother me to say this might be part of the problem your having ...not sure I remember you saying you hooked up vacume line ...I don't think this is your problem your having even if it is not hooked up...but it should be hooked up .....

the way to test to see if its working is to unplug it from the carb and suck on the hose if you feel it move plate or hear it ...your the mechanical and vacume advance are both moving free ....

 

[Dusterdude]

Dan,i plan on attaching the tape directly to the plenum and see how that works out,btw got the carb today,ill be in touch

 

[dan filipi]

The bogging, I had it bad. Made the bike unsafe to ride, especially making turns at signals when you expect power and it's not there.

I would say 2 things made the most difference getting rid of it on mine, eliminating air leaks (even the tiniest of leaks) and smoothing edges in the path of air flow.
I found raw gas was collecting in between my 1" runners and the larger diameter plenum outlet. It was disrupting flows a lot I'm sure.

(My high tech drawing)

IMAG0424

• dan filipi
• Oct 8, 2013

After I cleaned that up, the bike became rideable but still had some bog on takeoff.

I started going richer in the idle and primary jetting, to the point bog was almost gone.
At that point I added heat and bog was gone.

I then started going leaner to the point the bog returned.
At that point I went 1 step richer.

That is where it's at right now.

During all this I sealed off the power valve because it was leaking and I felt there wasn't going to be a good judge of fuel mixture without knowing how much richer the pv makes it, leaking or not.

 

[dan filipi]

My thoughts on the bogging concidering my carb and Tom's carb....
Mine came "rebuilt".
As I understand it, Tom's carb is new.

I'm not ruling out the possibility that my rebuilt could have worn throttle shaft bushings that's hard to detect of any air leakage past them.
This alone could cause bogging.

I've changed jetting to get the leanest possible and still have good power under load.
I know once I added heat, power flows smoothed out. Joe can attest to me telling him in a yahoo chat saying "it's like magic".

The very first trial creation I made up was very crude.
Bog was real bad on that one.
It had vacuum leaks.

The next creation bogged also but not as bad.
It too had vacuum leaks but very tiny and hard to detect.

The creation I have now has no vacuum leaks but did still bog some just off idle mostly.

My logical next step was to go richer.
After that, add heat.
Now it runs smooth from idle to red line with no bog and plugs are a good tan color, tan to white.

This is how the whole project has gone for me to this point.
I hope this helps someone.

 

[joedrum]

well its just so evident that there are people that have no valve what so ever ...unless its in the project killing ....brian as I said this is make or break spot ....it saddens me to see these airheads kill a project so close to being right ....all I can sa brian is rubber hose and gas have been partners for centry or more ...don't think theres a problem there at all ... and while on it ...in no way could a smart person could think that a car carb for a motor 25% bigger have the rpm range 1/2 what an oldwing is ...is somehow perfect air gas and tube jetted perfect for a oldwing...

if you don't get away from listen to such BS you will probably not get through this to the end ....

this is why cm85 got band here ...he was making misleading BS post he couldn't back up in any way ...just a complete info and project killer ...and absolutely no asset to oldwing forum at all ....mow we have west babbling about jetting and stuff to you ... and it hasn't been a week ago he posted he never open up one of these carbs cause he beleaves it perfect out the box ... that's just hit high on the BS meter for me ...im totally blown away by such BS from someone who has never open the carb up

I hope brian you sort through all this BS and the project blossoms to something that will lift you personally ...

all I can say in my opinion your getting some real project killing advice that will just be disappointing bike outcome big time

 

[canuckxxxx]

joedrum » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:32 am[/url]":6h5t17n0]
well its just so evident that there are people that have no valve what so ever ...unless its in the project killing ....brian as I said this is make or break spot ....it saddens me to see these airheads kill a project so close to being right ....all I can sa brian is rubber hose and gas have been partners for centry or more ...don't think theres a problem there at all ... and while on it ...in no way could a smart person could think that a car carb for a motor 25% bigger have the rpm range 1/2 what an oldwing is ...is somehow perfect air gas and tube jetted perfect for a oldwing...

if you don't get away from listen to such BS you will probably not get through this to the end ....

this is why cm85 got band here ...he was making misleading BS post he couldn't back up in any way ...just a complete info and project killer ...and absolutely no asset to oldwing forum at all ....mow we have west babbling about jetting and stuff to you ... and it hasn't been a week ago he posted he never open up one of these carbs cause he beleaves it perfect out the box ... that's just hit high on the BS meter for me ...im totally blown away by such BS from someone who has never open the carb up

I hope brian you sort through all this BS and the project blossoms to something that will lift you personally ...

all I can say in my opinion your getting some real project killing advice that will just be disappointing bike outcome big time

No problem with the BS Joe. I am a gearhead not a politician.

Update: I had the bike running again last night in my driveway. Let it run for about 10 minutes so it got nice and warm. Idles real smooth and steady. Will rev freely if I don't open throttle too fast. I tried opening up the throttle quickly a few times while looking down the carb bore. The stumble occurs when the gas from the accelerator pump is spraying in. Seems like a lot of gas spraying in there. I am wondering if there isn't too much gas. Can the accelerator spray be adjusted?

I took that nut off (where the accelerator cam is) to remove the spring. Maybe I tightened it down too much changing the action of the cam. (Similar to the nut where the throttle is where you can tighten it down too much and cause the secondary to work too soon.)

Next time I might try disabling the accelerator pump altogether and see what is does. Will keep you posted.

Brian