Carbs

[slabghost]

Most are getting 40mpg + if they don't get throttle happy. Do a thorough tune up. Plugs properly set. Set each air/fuel mix screw to highest rpm you can get. All four then do it again. Set the synch and you should get better mpg. Add ATF to the fuel and mpg will improve as well as power. All the while cleaning the carbs and stabilizing the gas.

 

[dan filipi]

Actually no, c5 system uses optical trigger not hall effect.
As I understand it the light trigger in combination with their coils provides precise timing control together with a triple spark.

 

[Riding a Relic]

The harder I ride mine, the better the fuel mileage. The more the slides stay open, the better it gets. This leads me to believe that if I can enrichen the fuel air mix, it would help the mileage some. I know the bike is tuned well. I am a certified master diesel and automotive tech and have been riding and working on bikes since 1971. I have the tools and equipment to properly tune these bikes as well. A few specialized sockets I have had to fabricate I am considering going to a coil on plug ignition system on my bike. One coil per each cylinder.

 

[slabghost]

Riding a Relic » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:46 pm[/url]":dp43l5br]
The harder I ride mine, the better the fuel mileage. The more the slides stay open, the better it gets. This leads me to believe that if I can enrichen the fuel air mix, it would help the mileage some. I know the bike is tuned well. I am a certified master diesel and automotive tech and have been riding and working on bikes since 1971. I have the tools and equipment to properly tune these bikes as well. A few specialized sockets I have had to fabricate I am considering going to a coil on plug ignition system on my bike. One coil per each cylinder.

Good luck with that one. I have a set and they stick out so far I'm afraid I'll snap them off. opcorn:

 

[Riding a Relic]

Opticals are hall effect ignitions, Dan. They work the same way only using a light source. The earliest ones were considered hall effect swtiches by design. Something blocks or disrupts a light source or electrical path. This is the hall effect, as commonly referred to. All it does is send a more digital or square wave to a transistor circuit. The same is accomplished with internal circuits in the on board computers and an AC sine wave generator, with a magnet in it and a reluctor ring rotating to produce the wave. Either system works well, the diesel and automotive industries have gradually moved away from the optical and hall effect sensors. They still are used, but not nearly as often as they were back in the 1980s. There are good reasons that the industry moved away from them, including expense of manufacture and failure rate. I don't think I would want to install any kind of hall effect switch in such an inaccesable place as the gl1100 ignition pickups. These old things seem to work so well, but I would sure like to be able to tweak the timing, I'm sure there is a circuit board somewhere that will do it, and keep the ignition triggers or pickups just like they are. Seems like I read somewhere that there is a company that has something to do this with. Maybe it was in Dennis Kirk or somewhere like that. I'll do some more research and get back with you when I find something that might help.

 

[Riding a Relic]

ghost, what kind of coils did you use? I was looking at Fords that go in the 5.4 L engine. They seem to fit like they were made for the bike!

 

[Riding a Relic]

I'll have to try the trans fluid in mine. I've used marvel mystery oil and it has some ATF in it, or so I've been told by some that were supposed to know. The only thing is marvel mystery oil is expensive if you add it every tank. ATF would be more cost effective (read:cheap!). Trans fluid has plenty of detergent in it so it would clean things up and shoot the deposits out of the exhaust, and it would lube as well. Lightweight so not to blow a headgasket. I think some of you guys posted it and I read it here about the ATF in the fuel.

 

[joedrum]

yes it was me that started the atf thing ...ive been doing it for a long time and carbs in service for five yr come off cleaner than when rebuilt ...gas milage up power up idle better ...absolutely no downside

 

[C5Performance]

Wikipedia states "A Hall effect sensor is a transducer that varies its output voltage in response to a magnetic field."

As you know, the PowerArc system we use on the C5 kits do not use a magnetic field to trigger the coils.

We can debate reliability all day long (Chevy vs Ford) but few would debate a light beam is more accurate than passing a magnet over a sensor. It has been proven time and time again that magnetic sensors are affected by heat, age, metal surroundings such as your STEEL points cover, and of course, the strength of the magnet used. There are Harley Davidsons running around with early PowerArc optical readers that were made almost 20 years ago. I'd argue not many engines shake more than a Harley so I believe optics are at least as reliable as magnetic pickups.

The key to better mileage is burning more of the fuel you ALREADY have in your engine.

Mileage is EFFICIENCY. You draw in "X" amount of fuel and air. After burning the mixture you pushed the piston down with a certain amount of force. That force is converted into forward movement.

If you want to go farther on the SAME amount of fuel then you better figure out how to burn more of it. No way you are burning 100% of it right now, that's for sure! Mixing it better can help, but giving the fuel more opportunities to ignite is the key.

Toss in fuel, compress it, FIRE.....then after the unburned fuel starts to redistribute, FIRE again, and as a last resort FIRE it one last time.

I've never shimmed GL carbs we but shim snowmobile carbs all the time. Yamaha used to sell "half shims" also, to fine tune two stroke carbs. Of course at idle your pilot jet controls most if not all of your fuel...depending on the taper of the needle. We raised or lowered needles to adjust "off idle" bogging and transition into the needle and main jet without flat spots.

 

[Ansimp]

Riding a Relic » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:46 am[/url]"hvkzc9y]
The harder I ride mine, the better the fuel mileage. The more the slides stay open, the better it gets.

I could be wrong but IMO I believe that the more the slides are open the more air passes through and more than likely gives you a more efficient air-fuel ratio which would improve fuel economy. :moped:

 

[joedrum]

good stuff ....me like post that are constructive views and are not mixed with attitude ....and all benefit .....

 

[C5Performance]

I was thinking about this thread when i should have been sleeping last night. On the past few Goldwing dyno runs we see excessively lean conditions below 3,000 rpm, and slightly rich conditions above. More throttle does not change the air/fuel mixture. Yes, you draw in more air, but you also draw in more fuel as well. The computer reflects this.

Last week i ran a 1978 GL1000 and the air/fuel started around 18 (very lean), crossed the magical 14.6 mark around 3,000 rpm, and settled in around 13.5, SLOWLY dropping to 12.5 at full throttle. That means from 4,000 to 8,000 rpm the engine ran richer as rpm increased.

The stoichiometric mixture for a gasoline engine is the ideal ratio of air to fuel to allow all fuel to be burned with no excess air. For gasoline fuel, the stoichiometric air–fuel mixture is about 15:1[1] i.e. for every one gram of fuel, 15 grams of air are required.

Although dyno's are not perfect, and every engine is certainly not identical, this is the third GL1000 we've run, and all dyno results show the same pattern. I know Honda tried (as all manufacturers do) to gear the bike for good mileage and power at cruising speed. It is a give and take thing.
Refer to the chart and you will see your Honda is tuned for max mileage at low rpm and max power at higher revolutions.

On my new motorcycle I cruise around 70 mph no matter what road i am on, and mileage on my bike drops. If i run at 60 I gain about 4 mpg. In my case, Yamaha tuned my Super Tenere' for best mileage at a speed less than what i travel.


If i was on a quest for best mileage, and this is purely my own opinion, i would start with a fresh air filter, plugs, oil, carb sync, and then i would run it on the dyno for two runs. After verifying what the air/fuel mixture is at the rpm you ride it most i'd make changes from there.

I have the C5 ignition already on my Wing but even without it, making carb changes such as shimming needles would be more helpful if you know where you started, and go from there. If you don't, how will you really know if you are making improvements?

Short answer...dont shim needles or change jets until you run your bike on an EGA machine (which can measure individual cylinders) or use a dyno sniffer which is a single tube that is inserted into your muffler. Most shops around here will do 4 dyno runs for $50, and that's a smart investment.

 

[Ansimp]

C5Performance » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:33 am[/url]":3apfdi2z]
Last week i ran a 1978 GL1000 and the air/fuel started around 18 (very lean), crossed the magical 14.6 mark around 3,000 rpm, and settled in around 13.5, SLOWLY dropping to 12.5 at full throttle. That means from 4,000 to 8,000 rpm the engine ran

Ansimp » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:36 pm[/url]":3apfdi2z]

Riding a Relic » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:46 am[/url]":3apfdi2z]
The harder I ride mine, the better the fuel mileage. The more the slides stay open, the better it gets.

I could be wrong but IMO I believe that the more the slides are open the more air passes through and more than likely gives you a more efficient air-fuel ratio which would improve fuel economy. :moped:

 

[mcgovern61]

C5Performance » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:33 am[/url]":1yhj0yvz]
I know Honda tried (as all manufacturers do) to gear the bike for good mileage and power at cruising speed.

Good point! It is also important to remember "what" speed was considered "cruising speed" by Honda at the time the bikes were manufactured. Before the mandated "55 MPH national highway speed" was required, cruising at 70-75 MPH was not uncommon. But during the 55 MPH limit period, the bikes were geared different to cruise at a lower speed. We know about the gearing, wheel size and final drive differences, but did Honda make any ignition or carb changes during that period to work with the lower highway cruising speeds?

 

[C5Performance]

mcgovern61 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:38 am[/url]":1ib4xzt4]
...but did Honda make any ignition or carb changes during that period to work with the lower highway cruising speeds?

Great point. I was in grade school back then. Would Honda have made changes to the U.S. models to adjust for the lower highway speeds?
Mileage and power are often a fine balance, and Honda could not (and still cannot) sell us products that don't meet U.S. emissions standards.

I could write a short story on importation requirements and how it affects which jets are used, but that is for motorcycles brought here in the past 20 years. We had many experiences at the dealership level that leads me to believe all bikes from mid 70's and forward would improve cold starting and low rpm operation with a small increase in pilot jet size. Even dirt bikes headed for our country are jetted leaner than for other countries.

Honda published a multi page bulletin for our XR650R's to fix this issue before we even uncrated them. We replaced intake manifolds, needles and nozzles, main and pilot jets, then removed "temporary" baffles in the airbox and exhaust. What a pain....and if you didn't order the parts, the bikes started hard or not at all, backfired constantly, and made the same airbox noises the early Wings experience.

 

[zman]

Hard to imagine now but the 55 was enacted in 74 by Nixon and went on till 88 when Regan put an end to it. They finally had to admit there was little fuel savings and nobody obeyed 55 MPH either.
Look out though..There are some in the green energy crowd that woul like to see it enacted once again.

 

[steveb123]

zman » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:12 pm[/url]":3gsb1q09]
They finally had to admit there was little fuel savings and nobody obeyed 55 MPH either.

Well, yeah. You won't achieve the energy savings if you don't actually do it.

I certainly notice a consumption increase from 80 km to 115 km/hr, and I'm sure I can't be alone.

C5Performance » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:33 am[/url]":3gsb1q09]
On my new motorcycle I cruise around 70 mph no matter what road i am on, and mileage on my bike drops. If i run at 60 I gain about 4 mpg. In my case, Yamaha tuned my Super Tenere' for best mileage at a speed less than what i travel.

Well, there you go.