Equality AKA level playing field. Goal or roadblock?

[slabghost]

We are all different with different wants needs and desires. All my life I've heard and read of the injustice of the wealthy. The unfairness of circumstance. We gotta help the poor. The rich have too much. etc. etc. adnauseum. This begs a few questions and some discussion.
1. How much (of what) is too much?
2. Who decides?
3. What exactly is equal?

Let's keep the discussion civil. Passionate response is welcome. :thanks:

 

[dan filipi]

There should be no equal, or too much, and nobody should decide.

I have what I have by taking responsibility for myself and working hard.
I'm fortunate enough to have a great family with my wife and kids and good friends here on the forum.

I do not believe that we should be required or expected to help the poor. This should be an individuals choice.

Maybe my thoughts on this are "unfair" or cold but I've felt this way all my life and I've always felt strongly that everyone is responsible for their own condition.

I do like to help, that is why I created this forum, but I don't offer handouts because I might be expected to, nor do I expect anyone to do any different. You make your own bed.

 

[slabghost]

Excellent post and views I share for the most part. I hate beggars calling for donations. Feed the children! Why? Do they not have parents or guardians or family?
Why the cry for equality? Doesn't anyone have a definition of it?

 

[dan filipi]

My understanding of "equality" if it's related to what I have and the other guy may not have is, would I be expected to give some of my stuff to even it up so we have the same stuff? Hell no. How is that fair?
You work for what you have, why should anyone give it away?
On the flip side, my in-laws are very well off. Much better off than us. Should I expect them to "level the playing field" by giving us more of what they have? No way, and I don't expect it.

 

[Steve83]

I feel that "equality" is more about opportunity. Anyone who is fortunate enough to be born mentally and physically healthy should have an equal opportunity to be as successful as they are able to be. Those who are at a disadvantage, through no choice of their own, are the ones who deserve assistance, if needed. They should still have the opportunity to try to be whatever they want. It doesn't work that way though.

Not everyone has the aptitude to be the CEO of Exxon, or the physical ability to be a star in the NFL, NBA, or MLB. It's a crazy world, where we, hard-working folks who actually make this way of life possible, are gouged at the gas pump or the ticket booth so they can be paid millions! And for doing what...catching a ball, or delegating to subordinates?

They say that we are all created equal. Well, maybe as far as the sperm fertilizing the egg, but after that, all bets are off.

 

[ekvh]

Tommy Jefferson of "The Jeffersons" from the upper east side wrote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed;[7]

The created equal part was explained. You got life? You got liberty? Great, happiness is to be pursued, not granted.

Original duty to Adam was to till the ground and keep it, i.e. Work. Until pension kicks in. And even then you better stay busy or you'll die.

I'm in a third world country where as soon as I step out in public, I have healthy looking kids running up and saying, "Give me money." If I sit outside at an open air restaurant, they come up and keep tapping your arm.They seldom get much from me, but the ones with no hands, an amputated leg etc, I give. Every man can judge for himself how much to give or not here.

Couldn't agree more with sentiments about pro athletes, but include singers, performers, entertainers.

 

[slabghost]

America is a country rich in opportunity regardless of where you are born or where you reside. The problems of all people are in recognizing and pursuing those opportunities. We each make decisions for ourselves. Some of which are good while many are bad. Most of us are satisfied to achieve a level of comfort. We do not desire to put forth the effort required to achieve a higher level of comfort. A few do and are rewarded for their efforts. Personally I have held positions of authority. This was uncomfortable for me. There is a movie called " Good Will Hunting" and in it the neighborhood bad boy is really smart but wasting his talents. He states to a college fellow that his $50.000 education could be had for a few dollars in late charges at the local library. Paraphrased as I don't recall it clearly enough to quote verbatim. He's absolutely right though. A few dollars more and he can take CLEP tests and get his diploma too. Few if any of us knew much if anything about Goldwings before joining forums or buying manuals. Life is all about choices. Sometimes we choose wisely often we choose poorly.
There is a plaque on my wall here that I grew up reading in every place we ever lived. It reads "The world owes you a living,but you have to work hard to collect it". This is true everywhere. I've met some fine people in other countries and cultures. Hard working and inventive in their own ways. Lacking the opportunities of America they seize the opportunities they can. Two soldiers on a post in Korea where I was stationed each paid twice for a 55 gallon barrel of oil. Why? Because a woman about 90lbs and of extreme age was caught by them attaching her back rack to a barrel of oil. She had snuck on the post to steal it. Because of her advanced age and tiny size the soldiers laughed at her and told her if she could walk out with it she could have it. She did! Opportunity is everywhere but not so available as it is right here.

 

[joedrum]

words are words ..truth is ,,since america infected itself with the financial scam of the federal reserve bank of human scum ..america takes from the bottom up to the goverment and rich...a poor person works and if he dont give his earning back hes a criminal and will go to prison for not paying back to a private bank of human scum....america was great ..but that was before 1913 and the federal reserve and irs act infected on every american ...before then we had to best economy ever in the entire world ...history lies to us for the sake of the banking scum....we had roads laws and a better life period....until america gets the monopoly scum bankers out of this country we are nothing but slaves...no matter what you have ..the banker scum will take through inheritance tax or some other trap to steal it back ...we as a people own less of our country than ever before ..and to think this is the land of the free is a sick joke ...people wonder why god doesnt bless america ...its because we have hell on earth running things here plain and simple ....the days of paying temple tax should be over not just called something else ...there nothing free about having a price to pay for living ...obviously this has nothing to do with being free people...ill stick to what jesus said and the rest of the world can go to hell if it wants to.... :beer: :laptop: :builder: :ahem:

 

[brianinpa]

If you want it, work for it. What I work for, I expect to be able to keep.

 

[Tom_Charlton]

"Level playing field" - NO. Mountains aren't level and we respect and honor greatly only those who scale the heights and reach the summits. To those who are content to live in the valley and make ends meet, good for you, but don't expect the same respect and honors earned by the climbers.

"All men are created equal" - NO. People are NOT created equal; genetics alone ensures that. Some people are genetically pre-disposed towards faster reflexes, better wired brains, larger muscles, etc., characteristics which make them more competitive in life's race (and yes, it is a race). Limited resources and unlimited contenders make it a race.

In the US, citizens do have equal RIGHTS to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That should not mean I must support those who expect our society to give them happiness through social largess programs. If you won't try, don't expect to achieve. However, the social "safety nets" imposed by our form of government pretty much guarantee a minimum standard of living for those who don't try.

"Equality AKA level playing field. Goal or roadblock?" It's a roadblock to improving our society because it removes the ultimate penalty (starvation & death) for those who don't try. When you can live in a society without contributing to that society, there is very little incentive to contribute.

One more thought: We live in a REPUBLIC, not a democracy. (Read the Pledge of Allegiance). Being popular does not qualify you to lead a society. Wars are won by the better warriors, not by the most popular person. The Romans had democracy and Rome fell to invaders. If we let mob rule decide the course of our society, we can and will be the next to fall.

 

[dan filipi]

PurpleGL1200I » 6 minutes ago[/url]":2940y3p8]
"Level playing field" - NO. Mountains aren't level and we respect and honor greatly only those who scale the heights and reach the summits. To those who are content to live in the valley and make ends meet, good for you, but don't expect the same respect and honors earned by the climbers.

"All men are created equal" - NO. People are NOT created equal; genetics alone ensures that. Some people are genetically pre-disposed towards faster reflexes, better wired brains, larger muscles, etc., characteristics which make them more competitive in life's race (and yes, it is a race). Limited resources and unlimited contenders make it a race.

In the US, citizens do have equal RIGHTS to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That should not mean I must support those who expect our society to give them happiness through social largess programs. If you won't try, don't expect to achieve. However, the social "safety nets" imposed by our form of government pretty much guarantee a minimum standard of living for those who don't try.

"Equality AKA level playing field. Goal or roadblock?" It's a roadblock to improving our society because it removes the ultimate penalty (starvation & death) for those who don't try. When you can live in a society without contributing to that society, there is very little incentive to contribute.

One more thought: We live in a REPUBLIC, not a democracy. (Read the Pledge of Allegiance). Being popular does not qualify you to lead a society. Wars are won by the better warriors, not by the most popular person. The Romans had democracy and Rome fell to invaders. If we let mob rule decide the course of our society, we can and will be the next to fall.

Well stated!!

 

[joedrum]

you cant have eqality in a system that gives one group the power to make phony worthless money and also control its ups and downs ..this is stealing plain and simple with zero effort ...and then blame poor people for it all ...there is no place in a free country for blood banking scammers and nation killers....america is perfect proof of that ...we have been drainoing full throttle for about a 100yrs now....

 

[zman]

I think some are just driven to obtaining wealth and without the challenge whats the point, so there isn't enough wealth , It`s not the wealth it is the challenge of obtaining it.
Then there are people who`s needs are modest, family,friends,comfort and the bills paid, many want to be rich but can they keep it?..do they have the discipline to not blow it?
Doesn't matter what category you fall in to , both are satisfying but you cant be rich without the drive to get there.

 

[slabghost]

Well said Jeff. Most lottery winners blow there winning very quickly and return to their life of habit. Proof that taking from one and giving to another helps neither over time.

 

[Dadster]

What the Government gives to one man, was taken from another.

 

[Tom_Charlton]

Absolutely correct. The only Government activities that "make" money are those that charge you for using public facilities such as toll roads & National or State Parks. I call that "making" money because you choose to pay the fees to use those facilities. Nobody forces you to use a toll road or go to a Park, so the cost is a use fee, not a tax.

 

[WalterM817]

I think there is always going to be an "entitled" class. You know the guy that butts up in line or doesn't mind tricking the other guy out of something. How they do it legally but still in a underhanded way is sick in my opinion. I'm not saying that people should be handed money or things but when there are 300 workers busting their collective butts to make money for a company that has two dozen accountants/lawyers etc. working full time to minimize their livelihood I believe that is wrong.
The problem as I see it is that companies are no longer owned by an individual in most cases and so the company is run entirely by people who's sole purpose is to hit a projected goal and is willing to kill the company and everyone there to get a bonus for themselves. I've seen middle management take a good company and sell off tooling and finished product for scrap to cover their projected, inflated numbers or they would get the axe themselves. Kind of a scorched earth policy. The reason was evident. It was not pretty. After the company dies these professional leeches move right onto the next company . It's purely a get rich scheme without having to take one speck of responsibility for the anyone under them.
Putting yourself that far above the people that are the backbone of an industry is wrong.
It makes you wonder why anyone has any incentive to do a quality job anymore and it shows in the products and services we get now.
There are always a few substandard apples in the barrel. Any barrel.

 

[slabghost]

Agreed but on the flip side there is the company running with say 85 employees. Twenty of them actually work. Ten of them actually know what to do. So 65 get paid just for being there. Ten are paid for doing something. And ten are getting paid to keep the company afloat. All of them getting the same rate of pay. Extreme examples like this are called union shops.

 

[Omega Man]

Dadster » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:52 am[/url]":1m222e6c]
What the Government gives to one man, was taken from another.

Yep! So simple and so true. :yes:

As for "equality?" My .357 Magnum makes everything more or less equal. :mischief:

~O~

 

[slabghost]

All men are created equal. Then Sam Colt made them more equal.
I'm still curious as to what most are saying need to be made equal. Women now hold a lot of positions previously reserved for men. Not much of an improvement in my experience although they are sometimes nice to look at. If they put in the same hours as men they receive the same pay. Opportunity is everywhere but we pick where we want to look and what we want to see.