hooch getting a new fuel source

[joedrum]

ok last night ride was really cold ....coldest this yr so far ...im going to keep posting about the rides this time of yr ...as it is icing like weather conditions ...so far icing is really only effecting idle on hooch so far this yr ....seems when rpm is slow enough icing has a chance to form .....but it has presented no problem while running at all ....best practice was to be just one gear lower than usually for given speed ...on better days i can run hooch at 30mph in fifth gear no problem that way under 2000rpm ...when colder just run in forth deal .....it will be interesting to see how hooch dose through the cold weather ...so far past idle ...it run super decent with big power ....

for a non heated set up ....large runners 1 1/2" in size ...insulated gaskets from head to keep heat from getting into runners ....a caveman cold induction system ....with the modded ..32-34 motorcraft weber carb and dial in nice to good spark plug color .....hooch is running great with just minor problems in the cold ...no more than i have had with stock carbs in cold running conditions...so still very pleased .... :thanks:

 

[slabghost]

Snowing here since last night. No rides lately. Seems Hooch has proven the added heat isn't needed after all.

 

[Ansimp]

slabghost » Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:56 am[/url]":3nc5wvx7]
Snowing here since last night. No rides lately. Seems Hooch has proven the added heat isn't needed after all.

+1 :good:

 

[joedrum]

im not out to prove anything ...to me im posting results as i see them .....ive got yrs of experience with stock carbs ...and this is the background is use to judge things with the SCC set up.....first off with gas motors two things have to be spot on ,,,one is spark and the other is gas charge to motor ....on stock oldwings both of these things are sub par by todays standards ...spark is a joke of accuracy at plus or minus 7 degrees ...and the carbs are dependent on everything to operate right ..vacuum for throttle position ...tightly fitted free sliding parts impossible to sync in friction even if vacuum is perfect all around ....plus the biggest factor is ..there late carbs ..the vacuum slides can never lift till the motor has already needed the charge ...on wings this is plain and simple spit and sputter time ...stock carbs can do well overall all but there working right window is narrow and lacks enormous torque at low rpm zone ...

hooch with the c5 and programed advance curve and muilti spark and spot on timing beats stock many times over ......as for SCC carb and charge delivery ... i have modded to a strait carb of the simplest design and maximum non dependence on anything else operation ...this design makes me in total control of when charge starts to motor ...making the carb ahead or in sync of the motor demands ...and with the longer runners of an SCC set up ...there and advance gas charge between motor and carb ...making it way quicker in operation than stock highly dependent 4 cv carb system ....

in reality this brings huge torque and instantaneous response at low rpm and through the rpm zone ....so now im all about finding weakness in the set up ...and icing seems to be the most popular hurdle against the SCC set up for oldwings .....so far it seems to me that the best cure for icing is having carb well dialed in for the motor its on as opposed to heated intake manifold ....

this is why all the posting on cold weather running ....most will never go where i have with the 32-34 carb im using ...after a year or more of testing different things ..it became clear the carb was just not close enough match for my motor and many mods had to be made ....so i pretty much made my own design carb from the dft mismatched carb ....to be able to say that honestly... and to be able to see and enjoy the fruits of my work is just all pleasing to me ...

to be able to go down to 1500 rpm in fifth obvious overdrive gear and be able to pull of it ..without a spit or sputter of any kind is something to experience for sure ....sure there throttle control involved ..but the set up puts all that in my hand on the throttle ....its also very rewarding to have instant response anytime through rpm zone ....this is where carb is a match for motor ...dialing in the right jetting brings the cream to the top....

it is amazing to me how much power is in one of these oldwing motors ....i love the design ..two valve haeds and single cam brings the most reliable set up in overhead cam design ....making belt drive at its most capable path and low weight and size...the oppose cylinder design brings almost no vibration to the table ...what it dose bring is rotational torque i never really felt before till i went SCC ....when no load revving is done ..the bike goes from one side to other in the direction of the motors rotation big time all so smoothly ....

so now im just looking for weakness in the overall set up as icing is on the table this time of year .....

 

[joedrum]

well it raining here today ..this was in the forecast...so yesterday i decided to go for a nice long ride ...100miles plus id say ...it was rather cool and dang near cold ...but i dressed for it and was quite comfortable when i got home late at night ........it is so weird with hooch ....seems the only problem i have with hooch is that when i have the full coverage lowers on... that covers the entire motor area ...hooch idles get wacky and goes up and down a lot and it seems a little worst sense the last mod i did on the carb ...permanently blocking gas flow to the idle mix screw .....but passed idle things are great ....

so i wasnt to far into the ride yesterday ..just a few miles and i decided to try taking the carb balance hose off the mix screw where it goes to the air box ....i havnt done this since the last mod on carb ...always before when some gas was getting to the mix screw this never worked good and some gas would leak also out the mix screw hole ...it didnt run any better and if anything worst....i was kind of hoping this might help the idle some ...well that didnt happen what did happen though was ....off idle got even crisper ...even though it was great before ...and even more a surprise was that through out the rpm zone to red line it showed more crisper running ...the roll on power was like a race bike if in the right gear ....the improvement bought the cams sweet spot more into more focus ...

on hooch 4th gear with 1200 final and car tire is like id say an 82 1100 5th gear or 5th gear on a 1000...its taller than a 80-81 5th gear ....this put 70mph right at or just above 4000rpm...though i didnt look so im guessing here some about actual rpm at 70mph in 4th gear ...sheesh the roll on power from this spot is like a race bike ....the roll on power in 5th gear at 70mph is huge and hooch growls like a mad dog on the move fast ...but im learning that this growl is and indication of out of the sweet spot for cam in rpm and also to tall a gear load witch also indicates not in sweet spot ....even though it seems perfect and runs with huge torque ....

there another sound in power ..one that eliminates all growling ...it appears if carb system is dail in just right .... ..one that is all high end sound ..kind of like crotch rockets sound like in there sweet spot ....and as far as the bike and what its doing its all about just ripping down the road like a race ready bike ...it got so intoxicating that ride went on and on ...the acceleration was something else ...made me want to stay in the sweet zone of cam ...made a different feel for the whole bike ...hooch is basically super overdrive in gearing ...at 70 mph in 5th gear hooch is well below the sweet spot of the cam ...but dose super well there ...you have to get to 80mph in 5th to be at the bottom line sweet spot for cam ....theres about 4000rpm of sweet spot from there ....sheesh i dont think i could ever hang on to hooch through 5th gear adventure all out ....

ive thought about dyno testing and all ...but have came to the conclusion that means nothing ...the bike job is to go down the road ...so im going to maybe run hooch at the local drag strip track down here its not far from my place ...but i need to keep improving on hooches brakes and handling and also me ive got to be able to hang on ...i can tell you right now as it stands the hooch bike way above me ....and im sure id be weak link on any time slip at the drag strip...

what a great ride and i always love it when hooch surprises me with more power from a already powerhouse to begin with.... :thanks:

 

[slabghost]

so where is the balance hose positioned now and how's the idle?

 

[joedrum]

the balance plug is out ..and carb is sucking air in right there at mix screw ...basically now it a full time air bleed ....so far this is better ..im fixing to go for a ride right now for second run like this ...as for idle it still going up and down some ...it not to bad to deal with ...funny when vetter lowers are off it idles fine

 

[Ansimp]

Great stuff Joe :good:

 

[joedrum]

well back from another ride ,,,simply put ..this is the best hooch has ever run so far ...darn thing will almost pull the wheel in 3rd gear ...yanks hard on the frame ....it is so much fun to ride ...conditions were nice after all the rain had stopped and sun came out ....very lively throttle it has

 

[joedrum]

very cold tonight here in fla ..cold enough to have to wear overalls ...

never had a bike run so well in the cold ....no spit ..no sputter ...no problem ....it seemed very dry out also ..dont think there was much humidity either ..so cold so far is not presenting a problem at all ...very pleased

 

[CRAFTMAN6001]

joedrum » Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:53 pm[/url]":3a7nxv0k]
very cold tonight here in fla ..cold enough to have to wear overalls ...

never had a bike run so well in the cold ....no spit ..no sputter ...no problem ....it seemed very dry out also ..dont think there was much humidity either ..so cold so far is not presenting a problem at all ...very pleased

How cold is it now in Florida..? Cold down here in the south end.. Looks like I'll get some wrench turning in

 

[joedrum]

sheesh wind blew all day here hard ...work all day also i dont think ill ride tonight ...not sure the temp dont need to know ...it to cold to ride :shock:

 

[slabghost]

East coast is getting hammered. Stay in tonight.

 

[joedrum]

ok went for a ride tonight check the mpg ..hooch got 46 mpg ...wasnt real cold out but i was dressed for it ...hooch ran well ...im quite pleased with the mpg ...hooch showed big power

seems the weber can get as good as mpg as stock carbs with much more power at the throttle ...than any other set up ive ever had on a oldwing ...never really twisted to hard on the run ...really dont have to and it still gets up to speed fast .... :thanks:

 

[dan filipi]

That's great Joe. Sounds like you have it set up really good!

 

[mcgovern61]

Question Joe........ since Hooch is such a mix of many different items, do you think you would be able to pull the same performance on an otherwise stock 1100 with the Weber?

 

[joedrum]

hmmmm ...well your asking something ive never done ....but there are few things that i think are the same ...as for hooch and its mods ..it is essentially a bored and stroked 1000 motor and heads ....not that far off from stock set up as oldwings go ....

personally id say the stock 1200 motor is more different from the the 1000-1100 stock motors than hooch is ....it has way smaller intake ports and hydo cam set up...this alone makes it hugely different than say your bike gerry ....even stock carbs are smaller on 1200s than 1100s or 1000s...this has to reduce flow to motor ..i dont know what the percentage would be ..but its safe to say its every bit of 20% reduction of flow ...let alone what the increase flow of the stock 1000 cam has on 1200 motor and its runners being as big or slightly bigger than the stock heads of 1000-1100 heads have ....

obviously this dose not kill mpg as im getting as good as stock or better with hooch and that is up against smaller intake runners of stock 1200 motor ...seems 1200s get more mpg than stock 1000s or 1100s ....

ive said this many times before ...and know what im talking about as ive got the results every day to ride ...stock carbs on oldwings are a poor induction system ...there dependent on to many other things than suction from the motor...if you have to wait for vacuum to lift heavy slides and also defeat a spring to get gas to motor its slow and late...each cylinder has to raise a slide and spring x 4 ...to me this the biggest reason oldwing are flat off idle ...seems the best thing the stock carbs do is idle when there nice and clean up and in good condition ...you know what ...at idle the slides are all the way down and its the only time the stock carbs actually work good and dont have to work or lift slides to get gas charge ....

so with all that said ..there is no doubt in my mind ..that a carb system dependent on nothing but suction from the motor and with no moving parts but the throttle plate or plates like mine being a weber progressive carb can get great mpg and more power to any oldwing ...to me ..if your not getting as good or better mpg than a stock oldwing with car carb....then its not right in set up and dial in ....

hooch was a long road for me ..i was determine to get where im at so far with hooch ...we all been trying to get plug and play car carb for oldwing ...i dont think that really possible with out mods to carb ...and if a carb was made to fit and oldwing perfectly it would probably be a bit better than hooch is now ...i simply on my weber have no idle circuit what so ever ...and have added more air ... there is one thing that stock carbs do better than hooch.... its idle ..hooch idles ok but a superb stock rack idles better for sure ,,,but pass that theres no contest the weber is hugely better ....

throttle response is instant....any cruising speed is smooth ..no spit and sputter of any kind ...it is such a pleasure to ride it ...hooch is very tall geared and will run in fifth gear at below 2000 rpm and pull away without any problem from there with good throttle hand

it is amazing to me how most feel FI and computer controlled induction systems or dependent carb system as stock oldwings are consider by most as better than a strait carb system like hooch ..simply just not so at all ...many have done FI systems ...and by competent people....i have yet to see one actually be an asset over stock set up...costing big bucks with no gain what so ever ...and it seems most lack stock carb performance ....

i was going to go right where you were asking ... but thanks to the government discrimination against men and fathers and the she devil wife of mine i lost everything i have and all my oldwings witch was considerable five or so ..i only escaped with hooch and the cloths on my back ...i had carbs and all for all my bikes ...what a sick form of equality the she devil sold everything and authorities and my kids did nothing but let her do it .... :head bang: :cheeky: :help: ...simply no justice for men at all

as it says thank god and hooch im gone

 

[mcgovern61]

Thanks Joe! I am not ready for a carb change yet, but it is good to review all of this to be prepared for the project when I attempt to try it! :yes:

 

[joedrum]

today it is rather cold in fla.....as far as hooch goes ..i have had no problems with hoochs running ..except for idle ....and this problem is mostly happening anytime i have the vetter lowers on so today im going to take them off ...and run hooch and see how it dose ...im expecting it to idle better ... seems like when it cold idle is much better and then as the motor warms up it looses idle speed and tries to idle at about 500 rpm ...if i adjust the idle to 1200 rpm it will idle ...but then if i give it gas it will hang high at idle ...but that is with the lowers on ...so today is the perfect day to test this out ...lowers are coming off and im going for a ride to see how it dose ...

the other thing id like to do ...is i have a gut feeling that if i advanced the timing on my c5 at idle speed ...that the bike might idle fine ...sure wish i had the ability to do that ...as i think this would maybe fix everything with the running of hooch lowers on or off ...passed idle to bike is flawless ...and actually shows great power in cold weather ...best running bike in cold weather ive ever rode ... :thanks:

 

[dan filipi]

Check with Paul. He might have someone near by that has a programmer.