HOTTER COILS, easier

[Ansimp]

Dan the CBR coils are 12v coils that don't require a resistor. By using the 84 resistor circuit you are effectively creating the same effect that a flat battery has on coil output. The biggest problem with using high output coils with points is that they draw more current and cause arcing of the points and premature failure. This also applies to low spec transistorised ignition. The best advice re ignition that I have observed in the forums are the ones about using a relay to provide maximum voltage to the coils. I would recomend using any 12v coil that is not high output with the older ignitions. That said in my experience I have seen many things that shouldn't work or last and they do. :shock:

 

[KYWinger]

:read: Well all righty then...... a mixed bag of responses... I may just hold off on the CBR coils for a bit. I'll try to get some plug wire and redo the wires with new caps and new plugs.
The bike is as reliable as a rock and I surely don't want to screw that up.

Thanks everyone! :clapping:

 

[Tory]

John
Sorry for the delay,although I try to follow the forum everyday,I sometimes have trouble staying logged in and can not always respond.

Yes,the small wires just plug right in as they where on the 1100 coil,and no you do not need the resister.But you can test resistance if you would like.I do believe the resister is part of the problem dan is experiancing.

I have not swapped out the coils on my 83 mainly do to the lack of any problems.If it aint broke....But I did on my 82 900F and am happy with the swap.

 

[dan filipi]

Dan the CBR coils are 12v coils that don't require a resistor. By using the 84 resistor circuit you are effectively creating the same effect that a flat battery has on coil output. The biggest problem with using high output coils with points is that they draw more current and cause arcing of the points and premature failure. This also applies to low spec transistorised ignition. The best advice re ignition that I have observed in the forums are the ones about using a relay to provide maximum voltage to the coils. I would recomend using any 12v coil that is not high output with the older ignitions. That said in my experience I have seen many things that shouldn't work or last and they do. :shock:

My point is more with regard to protecting the spark units but you've brought up a couple good points.

Far as I know, the spark units are the electronic equivalent to points.
They make and break the positive side of the ignition circuit using the signal from the pickups.... so take away the resistor (as in pre 83 1100's) and the next weak link goes up in smoke. In this case the spark units just as removing the resistor would shorten the life of points.

Could it be the CBR has a resistor somewhere else in the wiring harness, maybe a resistor wire?

P.s I'm not trying to talk anyone out of trying running different coils.
I'm game for ANY mod that proves worthy and trouble free
I'm just saying the smart thing to do is understand the consequences first, if there are any.

 

[Anonymous]

Those 1100 pickups sure look an awful lot like DYNA "S" pickups to me.

Hall Effect = Magnetic

Start incorporating other components to amplify and heat becomes a issue. Good components make the difference. Look at Pamco's simplicity. Ain't nothing complicated about that set-up. His components make the difference. Then ....crack open a DYNA "S" module and let the head-scratching begin.
I won't say anything of the Honda 1100 Pulsers, pickups, triggers or whatever we're calling them, ...but the DYNA "S" rates a total and complete "FAIL" for heat dissipation in its design. F A I L !

Depending on the ambient temperature, I run 1.3 ohms of resistance to the primary. I use a Dyna III with 1100 coils. I've so little secondary resistance that it is almost irrelevant.

As to coils of any type, knowing the mH value (its induction rating) is what you really want to find out if you plan on trying this or that with any trigger.
Most factory Jap-bike ignition coil inductance values are all but impossible to find. Sure, there are ways to figure it out, but why don't they just publish the specs? So frustrating knwing that they know but won't tell us...

 

[KYWinger]

I finally found a source for 7mm solid core plug wire...it sure wasn't easy! I got 12 feet, so I'm ready. I already had brand new NGK plug caps and a set of '04 CBR coils, so I'm ready to take the plunge and wire it all up.
I put new plugs in it just 5K miles ago, not sure if I really need to replace the plugs at this time; I may just file the ends of the electrode as was shown in a post here or somewhere else....

 

[dan filipi]

I hooked the cbr coils up without the resistor and the spark is definitely visibly better so I can see how this would be an upgrade.
I bet though the stock coils would probably be just as good without a resistor but might not be capable of taking a full 12+ volts for the life of the bike.
Only guessing here.
I have to wonder still why exactly did Honda use a resistor which dumbs down the spark. Only assumption I have right now are old coil technology requiring lower voltage or they'll overheat, or they found from prior model 1100's NOT running a resistor, the spark units overheat.

I'm going to install these cbr coils without a resistor and run with it.
I guess time will tell.

 

[Anonymous]

I think you're on to something Dan.
I think those coils are 3 ohm coils.
What did you pay for them?
There are some 3 ohm green Dyna coils on eBay right now from a KZ drag bike. Manufacture date of '98. Currently at $86 w/32 bids and 9 hours to go.
Are the Factory CBR coils 3 ohm, and are they the "new deal" now? ...making Dyna green's a waste of money? ...
I say run 'em with no resistor.

Watch what they sell for.

 

[backlander]

While researching for information on the 1200 ECU's for the past two months, I happened upon this from Lou D's. I can't testify if it's accurate or not but it was very interesting as he cover's his findings on several different coils including the kz's, dyna's, accel's, dodge neon's and some others. This is under the information on coils and specs heading. He has several other interesting ignition articles on there also.
https://home.comcast.net/~loudgpz/GPZweb/index.html#home





d

 

[Ansimp]

Excellent stuff. Just looked at the GM igniter substitute great savings and should give everyone an idea of what these ignition parts do :good: :good: :good:

Just getting back to the reason for resistor coils it allows for a start circuit that provides extra voltage for that short period of time during cranking. The coils will cook without the resistors when used for any great length of time.

 

[dan filipi]

Excellent stuff. Just looked at the GM igniter substitute great savings and should give everyone an idea of what these ignition parts do :good: :good: :good:

Just getting back to the reason for resistor coils it allows for a start circuit that provides extra voltage for that short period of time during cranking. The coils will cook without the resistors when used for any great length of time.

I agree with what your saying about allowing a start circuit for the coils however that is not the case on the 1100. The ignition system doesn't have the 12 volts bypass design that auto's have.

I also agree the coils will cook themselves to death without a resistor in line.
My CBR coils install is more a trial to see what happens, hopefully the spark units survive.
As an fyi if it means anything, the coils and the spark units were still cold after running for 15-20 minutes.

 

[Ansimp]

Sounds like a successful conversion on all fronts.

I normally prefer 12 volt coils as that reduces one more component to fail and with the addition of a relay circuit there are no worries about voltage drop from old ignition circuits.

 

[dan filipi]

Cm85, the CBR coils cost me about $50 shipped.

Ansimp, I plan to add in the relay mod at some point.

 

[KYWinger]

CBR coils, new plug wires, new plug caps and new plugs!

• KYWinger
• Feb 27, 2013

Finished the CBR coil mod; got everything back together...

CBR coils mounted, new 7mm. solid core wires made, new plug caps, new plugs....

That should do it for the ignition, I think.

 

[dan filipi]

Just wanted to thank tory for the info on the CBR coils.

Mine will fire up cold no choke after sitting a few days in the cold garage.
VERY rare for my bike so that's a good sign this is a worthwhile mod.

 

[Tory]

Dan,I am glad to here you are happy with them. Good work on the install and the tutorial.

 

[NCScooter]

If I wanted to keep points (For $ reasons) but replace the coils on my GL 1000, I would have to follow that "Lou D's cycle stuff" link and limp thru that, right? Or is there another simpler (and cheap but reliable) way?

 

[Five]

I realize that I am resurrecting an old thread here but, what year CBR coils did you use? Are you still happy with the the results? I am doing heads, head gaskets, carb rebuild, timing belts, etc. on my '82 and may as well swap coils if the 600F coils I have are suitable...

 

[dan filipi]

Five » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:41 am[/url]":33ly2lxb]
I realize that I am resurrecting an old thread here but, what year CBR coils did you use? Are you still happy with the the results? I am doing heads, head gaskets, carb rebuild, timing belts, etc. on my '82 and may as well swap coils if the 600F coils I have are suitable...

I didn't run long on these coils since I
moved up to the c5 ignition which comes with much better coils.
The spark improvement isn't even a comparison.

 

[crowesnest3]

followed the " hotter coil " conversation, know Dan was doing the CBR and was going to try the C5, which sounds like an impressive system but $$$ ......asked in another thread, will ask here, an opinion of at least swapping out the stator/coil harness ie Electonic connections ...... this would be for an 84 1200 ....... Crowe .... :Egyptian: