Re: Weber jetting, links and references
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the weber carb is made to be adjusted ...as dan stated he is doing this to learn the effect it has .....what i have learned is that the dft carb idle and transition circuit is a combined circuit ....me and others have trouble right here with oldwings ....
as of yet i havnt totally found exactly where or a good picture of where it gets its air from ... seems the manual decided that such a thing wasnt worth seeing ... seems everything else dose have pics of there circuits as in primary and secondary jets and stuff ....i have been all over the place here with the primary idle jet ...dan at 55 now ... ive been as high as 70 and as low as 45 ... i am at 50 now ....i am zeroing in on this part of the carb ... this is where most of the mpg is i think ... quite a bit of throttle is control by this circuit ... just guessing lets say 1/4 of ... it never switches over to primary till the air in barrel actually cuts the idle circuit out ....there are 6 holesa in the berrel of the idle circuit only one is controled bu mix screw ....this leaves a 5 fold multiple factor over idle to transition off idle response .... so far it has been very difficult for me to follow weber info with the mix screw and idle adjustment
what i have been able to do with mix screw ,,, is to get good off idle response big time ...as dan says just a slight move on mix screw gets huge effect on off idle response ... but it seem when this spot is found it dosnt idle all that great or not at all ... it always seems lean ... and you have to dial in a lot of idle adjustment on the throttle linkage to get it to idle ... this seems to instantly make it go from lean to rich ... this brings in all the 5 fold increase of the transition off idle ...on more upgraded or expensive weber carbs idle air is adjustable .. though the dft gas is adjustable the air is not .....so back to the begining i want a pic of complete idle circuit on dft carb ...so if anyone can find one let me know ......i am convince the way the carb works at other areas it seems the dft passages in carb are rather nicely sized and jetting works great ... on hooch 1200 all the jetting that came with the carb was lean accross the board ...if the motor pops when reving its lean .... in the main jetting i am way up there in air and gas jets ... the bigger the air jets you use the bigger the gas jets can be and the less trouble with clogging ... there have been times hooch has just just ripped the pavement up right off it crummy lopey idle ....sheesh its either been winter that wont stop this yr .... or me feeling like crap ... maybe today i can do some work on hooch not sure still weak ... but always possitive......
yesterday as i was not able to do anything outside ... i worked on a set of 1100 carbs for a friend ... sheesh ... out of the four mix scews that on on the bottom three were broke off ... i sent a long time trying to get them out then dig o ring spring and washer out of the deep holes ... not even a groove to help pull up the o ring with mix screw ... this is just super junk engineering ... back in the day epa demanded that owners be prevented from working on there carbs ... and thay were engineer to basiclly self destruct on you if you tried ....it would be so much better for the purest to inform people of this as oppose to spouting the bs honda engineered these carbs just right for the oldwing and you cant do better ... is just a lie or just ignorant blab ... carbs and the poor ignition set up that was also engineered to be non adjustable are two 2 biggest discounts to 1100s and really all oldwing 4 bangers ....these to deals on oldwing motor combine and interconnect to a point of making them lazy and so so motor
when these two honda deals are stripoff the oldwing ...and replaced with non honda stuff like the c5 ignition and the weber carb set up ... they become a completely different animal that rivals anything out there today ... this is where i am at ... i will figure the idle circuit out to the best of my ability ... as it stands now there is no comparison at all with stock carb or ignition system .... sheesh yesterday working on the 1100 carb rack brought me to reality of just how much more poorly design the honda carbs are ... there will be no oldwing that joedrum will have with honda carbs on ... i am no purest.....
as of yet i havnt totally found exactly where or a good picture of where it gets its air from ... seems the manual decided that such a thing wasnt worth seeing ... seems everything else dose have pics of there circuits as in primary and secondary jets and stuff ....i have been all over the place here with the primary idle jet ...dan at 55 now ... ive been as high as 70 and as low as 45 ... i am at 50 now ....i am zeroing in on this part of the carb ... this is where most of the mpg is i think ... quite a bit of throttle is control by this circuit ... just guessing lets say 1/4 of ... it never switches over to primary till the air in barrel actually cuts the idle circuit out ....there are 6 holesa in the berrel of the idle circuit only one is controled bu mix screw ....this leaves a 5 fold multiple factor over idle to transition off idle response .... so far it has been very difficult for me to follow weber info with the mix screw and idle adjustment
what i have been able to do with mix screw ,,, is to get good off idle response big time ...as dan says just a slight move on mix screw gets huge effect on off idle response ... but it seem when this spot is found it dosnt idle all that great or not at all ... it always seems lean ... and you have to dial in a lot of idle adjustment on the throttle linkage to get it to idle ... this seems to instantly make it go from lean to rich ... this brings in all the 5 fold increase of the transition off idle ...on more upgraded or expensive weber carbs idle air is adjustable .. though the dft gas is adjustable the air is not .....so back to the begining i want a pic of complete idle circuit on dft carb ...so if anyone can find one let me know ......i am convince the way the carb works at other areas it seems the dft passages in carb are rather nicely sized and jetting works great ... on hooch 1200 all the jetting that came with the carb was lean accross the board ...if the motor pops when reving its lean .... in the main jetting i am way up there in air and gas jets ... the bigger the air jets you use the bigger the gas jets can be and the less trouble with clogging ... there have been times hooch has just just ripped the pavement up right off it crummy lopey idle ....sheesh its either been winter that wont stop this yr .... or me feeling like crap ... maybe today i can do some work on hooch not sure still weak ... but always possitive......
yesterday as i was not able to do anything outside ... i worked on a set of 1100 carbs for a friend ... sheesh ... out of the four mix scews that on on the bottom three were broke off ... i sent a long time trying to get them out then dig o ring spring and washer out of the deep holes ... not even a groove to help pull up the o ring with mix screw ... this is just super junk engineering ... back in the day epa demanded that owners be prevented from working on there carbs ... and thay were engineer to basiclly self destruct on you if you tried ....it would be so much better for the purest to inform people of this as oppose to spouting the bs honda engineered these carbs just right for the oldwing and you cant do better ... is just a lie or just ignorant blab ... carbs and the poor ignition set up that was also engineered to be non adjustable are two 2 biggest discounts to 1100s and really all oldwing 4 bangers ....these to deals on oldwing motor combine and interconnect to a point of making them lazy and so so motor
when these two honda deals are stripoff the oldwing ...and replaced with non honda stuff like the c5 ignition and the weber carb set up ... they become a completely different animal that rivals anything out there today ... this is where i am at ... i will figure the idle circuit out to the best of my ability ... as it stands now there is no comparison at all with stock carb or ignition system .... sheesh yesterday working on the 1100 carb rack brought me to reality of just how much more poorly design the honda carbs are ... there will be no oldwing that joedrum will have with honda carbs on ... i am no purest.....
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Yeah man, the idle circuit plays a big part before the primary gas jet is needed.
And just because the throttle plate is opened and pulling gas from the primary jet, it doesn't mean idle jet isn't being used at that point. They work together.
The dft will run well without changing anything.
It is very fine tuning that I'm doing now.
On skiri's build we found going up .5 in primary and 1.0 in secondary smoothed idle to primary transition and primary to secondary transition. We may find that a .5 change in the idle jet could mean big differences in mpg. Don't know yet but as you get higher in mpg numbers you start feeling and hearing differences in the engine with VERY small changes in the jets and idle mix screw.
And just because the throttle plate is opened and pulling gas from the primary jet, it doesn't mean idle jet isn't being used at that point. They work together.
The dft will run well without changing anything.
It is very fine tuning that I'm doing now.
On skiri's build we found going up .5 in primary and 1.0 in secondary smoothed idle to primary transition and primary to secondary transition. We may find that a .5 change in the idle jet could mean big differences in mpg. Don't know yet but as you get higher in mpg numbers you start feeling and hearing differences in the engine with VERY small changes in the jets and idle mix screw.
Good info Joe,
What about the info in the 740 manual, the I loaded on here last year, it kind of shows the idle circuit and off idle circuit but not a really great pix.
shows filtered air being pulled in from the air bleed screws into the emulsion tubes for mixture with fuel.
Has anyone tried different emulsion tubes yet, I had read some Ferrari tuning literature, it was talking about changing the emulsion tubes, and is suppose to be able to change where the power band is set for carb to match the engine, by the amount of holes and where they are located on the emulsion tube low or high, & size of hole, and how many holes low or high.
It was a interesting article, if i can find it I will post it.
link to idle/off idle circuit,
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B85S9Tw ... edit?pli=1
What about the info in the 740 manual, the I loaded on here last year, it kind of shows the idle circuit and off idle circuit but not a really great pix.
shows filtered air being pulled in from the air bleed screws into the emulsion tubes for mixture with fuel.
Has anyone tried different emulsion tubes yet, I had read some Ferrari tuning literature, it was talking about changing the emulsion tubes, and is suppose to be able to change where the power band is set for carb to match the engine, by the amount of holes and where they are located on the emulsion tube low or high, & size of hole, and how many holes low or high.
It was a interesting article, if i can find it I will post it.
link to idle/off idle circuit,
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B85S9Tw ... edit?pli=1
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The emulsion tubes are a whole study in themselves.
I haven't tried different tubes except trying a swap of the primary to secondary. I may experiment more with this after I get my mpg with this latest change in the idle jet to 55.
I find it very important to make only one change at a time then test it's effects, especially so once jetting is down to such a fine point.
For reference, a .5 change in a jet size is more like your cleaning the hole than drilling it. It's a very tiny change but that tiny bit makes a profound difference in performance.
I haven't tried different tubes except trying a swap of the primary to secondary. I may experiment more with this after I get my mpg with this latest change in the idle jet to 55.
I find it very important to make only one change at a time then test it's effects, especially so once jetting is down to such a fine point.
For reference, a .5 change in a jet size is more like your cleaning the hole than drilling it. It's a very tiny change but that tiny bit makes a profound difference in performance.
Here is the Inglese Inductions tuning info.
It has some good info.
The three circuits section is interesting
https://www.teglerizer.com/dcoe/inglese/ ... tuning.htm
It has some good info.
The three circuits section is interesting
https://www.teglerizer.com/dcoe/inglese/ ... tuning.htm
Here is some more info worth a read on the weber carb
https://www.classicandperformancecar.com ... ttors.html
I cant seem to find the Ferrari info, thought I had it on my computer.
https://www.classicandperformancecar.com ... ttors.html
I cant seem to find the Ferrari info, thought I had it on my computer.
This also has some good points, showing function of the three sections of the Weber carb.
https://www.webercarburatori.com/?p=handbook&s=2
I had forgot I had this info on my computer.
I am Not sure if i had posted any of this info last year or not, I dont think i did, sorry if it is redundant.
Between all that info, there are good tidbits of info in every article, that was why i saved them, so when i got to the point of tuning, I would have some details.
https://www.webercarburatori.com/?p=handbook&s=2
I had forgot I had this info on my computer.
I am Not sure if i had posted any of this info last year or not, I dont think i did, sorry if it is redundant.
Between all that info, there are good tidbits of info in every article, that was why i saved them, so when i got to the point of tuning, I would have some details.
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Those are some good reads.
Part of the confusion I'm having is the 32/32 dft comes with X05 and T02 emulsion tubes.
Why these are identified as they are I can only guess it's a branding specific change.
Part of the confusion I'm having is the 32/32 dft comes with X05 and T02 emulsion tubes.
Why these are identified as they are I can only guess it's a branding specific change.
The funny thing about the 32DFT carb. if memory serves me is.
That they share parts, Jets & emulsion tubes with at least 3 other Weber carb. models.
That is good, plenty of new parts, jets & emulsion tubes, still available.
I believe I have some sources of where to buy, parts specific to DFT parts, other than Redline, or Weber part direct.
I will post some links to these Weber Parts Sellers, if i can find them.
That they share parts, Jets & emulsion tubes with at least 3 other Weber carb. models.
That is good, plenty of new parts, jets & emulsion tubes, still available.
I believe I have some sources of where to buy, parts specific to DFT parts, other than Redline, or Weber part direct.
I will post some links to these Weber Parts Sellers, if i can find them.
yes west .. it could very wel lbe an emulsion tube .. that brings the idle right ... it platys a big part in where the primary jet takes over from idle circuit ... i so wish i had a budget LOL ... but really i am just glad to have the health i have considering what happen to me .... me and dan play off each other all the time ... because of weather ..my health and just a little bit of funds ...dan has been able to go places i just couldnt ... i must also never forget V he diffinitly makes some things possible for me bigtime along with dissecting things out in discussion on what goes on when i do things .... V is the one who provided me with bits to jet this carb and many other things also we have tried some good some not good ... but mostly all in possitive ways ... the c5 ignition is just perfection at the highest level i know of ... and with the products they have added it amazing how well they fit our oldwing forum were all about ..... the c5 was like a rock ... i just knew the ignition was not in play as any kind of discount .... and what a great value it is compaired to anything out there ... it amazes me how this escapes most people ... on 1000s its a complete replacement of everything honda ...cam stem on ...all the way to the plugs ... what a value it is ....
so west go where i cant if you can with the tubes ... id be there allready if i could fund it ... the weber carb is a premium top of the line product ... a great place to put effort in ... not to start anything .. but to me its foolish not to adjust and try to learn the most adjustable carbs out there ... like it was made not to be played with like the honda carbs were .....
sheesh i had it all set up to do a 1500 motor and have the carb ... but can not jump the hurdle of funding it and getting it and the price was over the top fair LOL
so west go where i cant if you can with the tubes ... id be there allready if i could fund it ... the weber carb is a premium top of the line product ... a great place to put effort in ... not to start anything .. but to me its foolish not to adjust and try to learn the most adjustable carbs out there ... like it was made not to be played with like the honda carbs were .....
sheesh i had it all set up to do a 1500 motor and have the carb ... but can not jump the hurdle of funding it and getting it and the price was over the top fair LOL
This place has some good details on the Emulsion tubes and would be good to talk to,
With the idea of what direction you wanted to go in before the call, meaning, for instance, you may want more low and mid range torque, and less top end.
You may want to ask them which emulsion tube they would suggest to do what ever it is you want?
Or maybe start with my bike has this carb 32dft, it runs good, but i want it to do this, or How can I tune it for better gas mileage, what performance hit will i take if tuning it for top MPG.
I have Not talked to them, but there site has some good details of the parts, and sounds like they really know tuning.
They encourage calling them for tuning on their site.
file:///C:/Users/Public/Documents/GL1100%20GOLDWING/WEBER%20CALIBRATED%20PARTS.htm
Look at the emulsion tube section, i would like to know which one does what?
If a certain circuit is pulling air in from the air bleed jet and fuel in from a fuel passage, then mixing in the emulsion tube, then is ready for carb to meter out to engine, this info on there site seems like good info,
If nothing else to learn one more small detail to add to what is already known.
With the idea of what direction you wanted to go in before the call, meaning, for instance, you may want more low and mid range torque, and less top end.
You may want to ask them which emulsion tube they would suggest to do what ever it is you want?
Or maybe start with my bike has this carb 32dft, it runs good, but i want it to do this, or How can I tune it for better gas mileage, what performance hit will i take if tuning it for top MPG.
I have Not talked to them, but there site has some good details of the parts, and sounds like they really know tuning.
They encourage calling them for tuning on their site.
file:///C:/Users/Public/Documents/GL1100%20GOLDWING/WEBER%20CALIBRATED%20PARTS.htm
Look at the emulsion tube section, i would like to know which one does what?
If a certain circuit is pulling air in from the air bleed jet and fuel in from a fuel passage, then mixing in the emulsion tube, then is ready for carb to meter out to engine, this info on there site seems like good info,
If nothing else to learn one more small detail to add to what is already known.
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The link that you have posted is to the file location on your computer. If you bring it up and can view the saved page you maybe able to copy the address bar, if not just bring it up in Google and copy and post the link here :thanks:
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We're working on knowing every nuance of this carb. Like if you want a daily driver cruiser and best mpg, use these jets, or I want all out performance, use these jets.
A 'canned' set of jets as the weber comes from the ford application is 'ok' but there is so much more possible from this carb.
All information helps. Time to start reading. There is much to learn.
A 'canned' set of jets as the weber comes from the ford application is 'ok' but there is so much more possible from this carb.
All information helps. Time to start reading. There is much to learn.
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I'll be moving these links to a new topic to make them easier to find. Good stuff west.
Here is the link that was to my cornputer.
That is a farming cornputer.
This shows jets and emulsion tubes
here you go, go to Calibrated parts section for jets, & emulsion tubes
https://www.paeco.com/weber_directory.htm
Or look through their site
https://www.paeco.com/OEM%20Carb%20Kits.htm
I have another site too, but can not find it.
Is this a case of CRS, "Can't Remember schnitz" or is it CFS "Can't Find Schnitz"
look up, your glasses are on your head, or where are my keys, check the front door lock, or your hand, before asking where they are.
That is a farming cornputer.
This shows jets and emulsion tubes
here you go, go to Calibrated parts section for jets, & emulsion tubes
https://www.paeco.com/weber_directory.htm
Or look through their site
https://www.paeco.com/OEM%20Carb%20Kits.htm
I have another site too, but can not find it.
Is this a case of CRS, "Can't Remember schnitz" or is it CFS "Can't Find Schnitz"
look up, your glasses are on your head, or where are my keys, check the front door lock, or your hand, before asking where they are.
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=116645#p116645:1fxvad0h said:
i am rather convinced but would like to see for sure .... that it gets it air from primary tube ... im also caonvince but not sure changing air bleeds on primary has no effect on idle circuit as the hole to it remains the same and is smaller than air bleed jet are ... but a dam pic would be nice showing this as oppose to guessing ...great links when i feel better or up to it im going read more ... :mrgreen:
This is a lot to cover for sure.. Would it be safe to say there is a complete manifold to plenum Simple Design? Or a quick pic look, With all the Overhaulin' over here I missed some of this. I'm getting 33hwy 40 local stock. Dyna sure helped. Also would like to give a wave to West. Hello . Okay Fellas I'm listening .. :laptop:
