running issue. its got me beaten

[Steve83]

Go for it!! Fingers crossed...

 

[joedrum]

i never thought to much of the randakks washer mod ...it just makes the needle not fit right ...not different than having a needle that dosnt fit right ... like they complain about in other rebuild kits

you should try what i said ...turn the sync screws 1/4 turn ....this brings more vacumm to the table ....and the needles still closes the gas off like they should ...it worked on angry dresser ...the way i remember ... me and v were talking and as a last ditch effort to get right ..V suggested this ...not from sound theory but as try anything at this point and it worked ...

 

[ekvh]

The aftermarket needle issues were due to them being longer than stock. I think they were trying to get better gas mileage by making them open a bit later. The washer trick was for 77 only models.

 

[Steve83]

Personally, I wouldn't mess with the carbs any more. The fact that they work fine on the other bike, and this engine has the same problem with either carb rack tells me that it's a mechanical or electrical issue. Maybe a wiring issue in the ignition circuit... This one is interesting!

 

[Ansimp]

ekvh » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:44 am[/url]":1zbry5k0]
The aftermarket needle issues were due to them being longer than stock. I think they were trying to get better gas mileage by making them open a bit later. The washer trick was for 77 only models.

Washer trick works by raising the needle off its seat. This gives more fuel for the same amount of vaccum/ air flow. Normally improved performance at the expense of fuel economy and bad transition from idle if needle is set too high

 

[aussiegold]

Ansimp » Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:17 am[/url]":8sym364q]

ekvh » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:44 am[/url]":8sym364q]
The aftermarket needle issues were due to them being longer than stock. I think they were trying to get better gas mileage by making them open a bit later. The washer trick was for 77 only models.

Washer trick works by raising the needle off its seat. This gives more fuel for the same amount of vaccum/ air flow. Normally improved performance at the expense of fuel economy and bad transition from idle if needle is set too high

yes, in theory this would work. isnt it strange how that little mod has been attributed to Randakk ? he buys in good materials for the kits he puts together, but thats it. i bought his carb rebuild dvd early on in the piece, and had to turn the sound off. man , he can blabber....
anyway, moving on. no real noticable difference by lifting the needles. may not be raised enough.
so, weather a bit cooler today , a top of 30 C forecast. i'm going for a ride. i am finished playing with this for now. time to enjoy it rather than hate it..... :good:

 

[Ansimp]

aussiegold » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:58 am[/url]" i'm going for a ride. i am finished playing with this for now. time to enjoy it rather than hate it..... :good:

Sounds like a great plan, enjoy the ride :moped: :moped: :moped: :good:

 

[aussiegold]

here she is , all shined up for a bit of a ride again tomorrow . a toy run for a charity organisation. i will take a couple of pictures at the gathering point, and post them.

 

[joedrum]

pretty bike aussiegold ....it will shine as a fine example of the bike that change the game in motorcycles

 

[Steve83]

Gorgeous! Have a great ride!

 

[backlander]

Beautiful bike and my favorite gold wing color.

 

[Ansimp]

backlander » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:18 am[/url]":1ysfeaz4]
Beautiful bike and my favorite gold wing color.

+1 :good:

 

[aussiegold]

so, because i just love beating my head against a brick wall, :head bang: , i visited a bike shop in Adelaide just b4 Christmas. they specialize in jetting carbs, mostly for dirt bikes but they do all. have a huge range of Keihin stuff. explained the ( small) issue i have going on and what i had done. they admired my tenacity i have to say.... :roll:
head honcho suggested raising the needles to see what happens. told him already have one small washer under.
he pops out some ( he says ) correct size washers to use and said try them.
i did, and have to say it is a little bit better. :moped: his advice is to put two under there. any more and he reckons it would be time to maybe go up a size in the jet. we had a long chat about why this would be needed and came to the conclusion that some things just are.... so, the next step is try two washers under the needles. his washers measured around 25 thou.

 

[slabghost]

Good to hear of any improvement. Have you read the article on the 78? If not here's the link.
gallery/image_page.php?album_id=10056&image_id=25586
They made some interesting observations on the performance of the carbs.

 

[bronko37]

slabghost » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:22 pm[/url]":1c1xidxw]
Good to hear of any improvement. Have you read the article on the 78? If not here's the link.
gallery/image_page.php?album_id=10056&image_id=25586
They made some interesting observations on the performance of the carbs.

Great article SlabGhost. LOL, the name of that guys bike cracked me up....

 

[C5Performance]

We have certainly seen lean jetting in the Goldwings up to 3100 rpm (as I recently posted). If you have to install more than one shim (we call them a full shim or half shim but I never measured thickness) then I agree with them ... you need a different needle or needle jet. I've never played with this on Wings because I ride aggressively and dont stay at that rpm long, but we have done much shimming of needles on snowmobiles. I would highly suggest you have an EGA test done to your engine. It's worth the investment if your problem doesn't go away with the shims.

 

[aussiegold]

still cant help thinking that the C5 is contributing to the leanness somehow. as , was shown by the Gunson Colourtune . today i changed to DR9EA plugs. one range colder. too soon to say if there is a difference, too bloody hot to ride around. going to South Australia next week so that will be a good run for it. also, the gaskets should be here soon for the LTD disaster. and i will make a video of the Gunson on a stock system.
M.

 

[C5Performance]

aussiegold » Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:07 am[/url]":ufr5mhxd]
still cant help thinking that the C5 is contributing to the leanness somehow. as , was shown by the Gunson Colourtune . today i changed to DR9EA plugs. one range colder. too soon to say if there is a difference, too bloody hot to ride around. going to South Australia next week so that will be a good run for it. also, the gaskets should be here soon for the LTD disaster. and i will make a video of the Gunson on a stock system.
M.

I will tell you that it does not because jetting is controlled by the carburetors, not your ignition. The C5 burns more of the fuel that already made it into your engine and I question the accuracy of the Colourtune unless you showed me how it compared to an air/fuel meter at the same time. Certain not the accuracy of a quality EGA (Exhaust Gas Analyzer) with probes in each head pipe.

Honda jetted these bikes lean to pass EPA testing, and I've shared proof. At 3100 rpm and below, your pilot jets and needle/nozzles control fuel. You should figure out at what rpm the needles first begin to lift. If the stutter is above that rpm your pilot jets are ok and the needle/nozzles are responsible for the issue.

I hope I didn't confuse anyone.

 

[joedrum]

great post and spot on

 

[aussiegold]

C5Performance » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:10 am[/url]"d8aexhs]

aussiegold » Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:07 am[/url]"d8aexhs]
still cant help thinking that the C5 is contributing to the leanness somehow. as , was shown by the Gunson Colourtune . today i changed to DR9EA plugs. one range colder. too soon to say if there is a difference, too bloody hot to ride around. going to South Australia next week so that will be a good run for it. also, the gaskets should be here soon for the LTD disaster. and i will make a video of the Gunson on a stock system.
M.

I will tell you that it does not because jetting is controlled by the carburetors, not your ignition. The C5 burns more of the fuel that already made it into your engine and I question the accuracy of the Colourtune unless you showed me how it compared to an air/fuel meter at the same time. Certain not the accuracy of a quality EGA (Exhaust Gas Analyzer) with probes in each head pipe.

Honda jetted these bikes lean to pass EPA testing, and I've shared proof. At 3100 rpm and below, your pilot jets and needle/nozzles control fuel. You should figure out at what rpm the needles first begin to lift. If the stutter is above that rpm your pilot jets are ok and the needle/nozzles are responsible for the issue.

I hope I didn't confuse anyone.

yes, i understand that the jetting is controlled by the carbs and and the ignition certainly is burning every bit of fuel that is getting there.
the colour of the plugs bears this out, along with visual proof via the Colortune.
a few words on the Colortune. so far , it has been very useful to actually see what is going on with the combustion. it is not as accurate as proper exhaust gas metering , but useful just the same. it is simply a visual aid .
in theory, with a stock engine and stock carbs with standard jetting , this engine should be running smoothly through all rev ranges.
even with the standard idle circuits running on the lean side.
i think you are right , the next logical step is to locate some one who can test the exhaust gases, with the proper gear, to see where it is lean. (or rich ). how accurate would that be with the stock Horseshoe muffler ? can't get a probe in each head pipe .
i am not happy with having to put washers under the needles, or even consider re jetting. it just doesnt make sense. :BigGrin:
not being able to pinpoint what is going on with this engine is infuriating. but i will find it. :roll: