Starter Issue, won't turn engine over.

[ljtelfer]

I bought a gl1100 last fall and put it away for the winter. The engine runs, push starts. The bike did sit for a couple of years. The start will spin when on the bench. The starter will start to turn the engine and then something binds up. The start probably does not spin the engine more than an 1/8 of a turn before it locks up. Then if I put the bike in gear and rotate the rear wheel backwards a little way, then it unbinds the starter. Then trying to start it agian, it all happens over again. Any ideas? I am thinking there is something wrong with the starter clutch. I am think I will have to pull the engine and see what is wrong.
Any help would be great.

 

[OldWrench]

I haven’t heard of that problem with the starter clutch. I would start with the basics, make sure you have a good battery. If you have a VOM (volt ohm meter) check the voltage at the battery when you attempt to start it, It shouldn’t drop below 10.5 volts at the most.
Just because a starter will spin on the bench doesn’t mean that it will work under load. It sounds to me like the starter clutch is engaging so my way of thinking that wouldn’t be the problem. I’m wondering why rotating the rear wheel will free the starter, is it possible it is disengaging the starter clutch?
If your battery is in good condition I would then check the voltage drop at the starter itself, making sure you have a good connections and wiring, when doing so place your negative on the frame this will also show you if you have a negative cable problem.
I’m no expert on the 1100, I do have two of them but still learning there idiosyncrasies. However I have had a lot of experience with starter problems on other things.
I just thought of something else, I know you are in neutral when you attempt to start it, but just try the starter while holding the clutch in.

 

[mcgovern61]

Welcome to the site from New Jersey! :clapping:

There may not be anything wrong with your starter, but there may be liquid in your cylinders! It sounds like the engine is hydro-locking! Take out all 4 spark plugs and try again, see if anything comes out. If it does, then we can take the next step.

 

[ljtelfer]

Welcome to the site from New Jersey! :clapping:

There may not be anything wrong with your starter, but there may be liquid in your cylinders! It sounds like the engine is hydro-locking! Take out all 4 spark plugs and try again, see if anything comes out. If it does, then we can take the next step.

Yes, we tried that too. The engine will not turn over. The starter will not turn the engine. The starter will not turn the engine with direct connection to the battery. The battery is new, we also hooked up a booster and still the starter would not turn the engine. Again, the engine runs and drives when push started.

I did clean the starter up last fall. The this past weekend I took the rear of the starter off and removed the orbital gears(?) and put that portion back into the bike and used a notched socket that fit pretty good around the gear posts. I was able to turn the starter chain with a ratchet by hand, I did notice that there was a point where it was more difficult to turn the chain. I tried doing this while the bike was in gear and the rear tire would rotate while I was turn the socket. So to me the starter clutch was engaged otherwise the rear wheel shouldn't turn. Right?

 

[OldWrench]

Oh again welcome to the forum. From what you are saying you have a bad starter. The starter clutch is engaging and from what I understand the normal problem with the starter clutch if failure to engage and the starter spins freely. I have this problem on my 83.

Check ebay I see a lot of starters listed there. One thing I read on this forum, apparently there are some starters out there that are wound backwards so make sure you get one for the 1100 engine.

 

[AApple]

I'll not try to deduce the problem, since I haven't had the pleasure of messing with my starter(yet), but, I'll throw out a silly thought, and perhaps someone can confirm/deny the possibility.
From what I unnerstand, the starter spins a chain, that spins the engine over to start it. Is it possible that there is a problem with the chain that could be locking it down at a certain point in the rotation of the thing? Is that chain always moving when the engine is running, or is it stationary after the engine starts?
Since the bike will start and run by push-starting, I'd say that would eliminate an engine related issue, no?
As always, just trying to learn more from the folks that really know. :read:

 

[dan filipi]

On one hand it sounds like a starter problem, on the other hand it sounds like a clutch problem.

I have a parts bike that shows ALOT of rust on the starter chain.
This bike sat outdoors close to 10 years.
The starter will rotate the engine fine but once started the starter clutch doesnt disengage. Ruined a starter already, spun it to pieces inside :smilie_happy: .

On my runner, I can rotate the chain in the opposite rotation of cranking without any binding feel of any kind.

I would take a look thru at the chain for rust, AApple has a good point. If a starter chain link were frozen from rust or whatever it makes sense that could cause the starter to jamb.

 

[Joep]

as for starting when pushed but not with the starter.. the engine could have something binding just enough that a weak starter can not overcome.. he could have a combination of issues creating the hard to start issue.. I would run MMO in the cylinders with plugs removed and rotate the wheel by hand through several cycles.. then mmo in the cyclinders and in the crankcase and push start it... and then I would replace the starter so that it can be eliminated... just trying to free some areas where oil, sludge and gunk may be working against the starter but the pushing and dropping into gear over comes it.. clean some of it up and the motor should turn freer..

 

[ljtelfer]

When I got the bike last fall the engine was froze up. I did use mmo and seafoam and was able to release the engine. I did add alot of mmo and rotated the engine plenty before I put her to bed for winter. But before I put her to bed, I had the same issue of not being able to start the bike with the starter. At that time I decided it could wait until spring, so she went into storage to make room for the cars in the garage.

I am thinking there has to be something wrong with the clutch or chain. There should be no reason that the starter will turn the engine so far and then bind. At that time you can not even push the bike forward so you then have to move the the bike backwards to rotate the engine backwards and then it releases. And the starter will turn the engine so far again then binds.

Does the chain only spin when you start the bike, or does it continue to spin after the engine is running?

Any thoughts after hearing that?

 

[joedrum]

ive never had a problem with my starter but it sounds like apple is on the right track on this, starter clutch and chain binding or somthing, this would not be in play if push started maybe dan has some info on how to deal with this as far as access to it my bike is under a tarp and my mind is non functional right now to early i guess

 

[dan filipi]

When I got the bike last fall the engine was froze up. I did use mmo and seafoam and was able to release the engine. I did add alot of mmo and rotated the engine plenty before I put her to bed for winter. But before I put her to bed, I had the same issue of not being able to start the bike with the starter. At that time I decided it could wait until spring, so she went into storage to make room for the cars in the garage.

I am thinking there has to be something wrong with the clutch or chain. There should be no reason that the starter will turn the engine so far and then bind. At that time you can not even push the bike forward so you then have to move the the bike backwards to rotate the engine backwards and then it releases. And the starter will turn the engine so far again then binds.

Does the chain only spin when you start the bike, or does it continue to spin after the engine is running?

Any thoughts after hearing that?

The chain should only spin when the starter is engaged.

It sounds like your pretty certain the engine is binding because you have to roll it backward to free it so it can be pushed started. Is that right?

Possible causes for binding could be a frozen chain, rusted bearing, something tweaked or some other interference.

How about the timing belts and tensioners. Have you replaced the belts and checked the tensioners for smooth rolling?

Does the clutch work OK, does pulling it in make any difference?
What does it do when turning it by hand with the stator bolt, can you feel a bind?

I think if you don't feel a bind when rotating by hand then the problem has to be in the starter chain or clutch.
Frozen chain.
Spragg rollers (starter clutch)
Stator bearing.

The chain not rolling smooth in the opposite rotation of cranking would seem to nail it down to the starter clutch or the bearing it rides on.

 

[mcgovern61]

At that time you can not even push the bike forward so you then have to move the the bike backwards to rotate the engine backwards and then it releases. And the starter will turn the engine so far again then binds.

If the bike is in neutral, why can you not push it? How is the transmission becoming engaged?

 

[ljtelfer]

At that time you can not even push the bike forward so you then have to move the the bike backwards to rotate the engine backwards and then it releases. And the starter will turn the engine so far again then binds.

If the bike is in neutral, why can you not push it? How is the transmission becoming engaged?

I have to put the bike in gear after it binds up.

 

[joedrum]

its got to be in the starter clulch and chain ljtelfer or bearing nothing to do with the motor. its quite the task to push start these wings by yourself huf and puf and still not fast enough

 

[ljtelfer]

its got to be in the starter clulch and chain ljtelfer or bearing nothing to do with the motor. its quite the task to push start these wings by yourself huf and puf and still not fast enough

I appreciate the help. We got tired pushing it other day, so we hooked it up to the riding lawnmower. That made it a snap.

Thanks, I will let you know what I come across when I get back to working on it.

 

[jdegase]

I would look at starter bearings. and maybe take the inspection plug out and check the flywheel bolt...
if the flywheel bolt is loose... make sure to put some locktite on it and torque it to specs !

 

[Smokey66]

PULL THE MOTOR! Remove the rear cover,check the chain and gears,then remove the alt.rotor and check the starter clutch.If its gummed up or has any trash in it(which is probley the case,considering that it was frozen-up,and then the sea-foam treatment that loosened up all kinda stuff thats now floating around in there),it wont work.Theres no way around it.

 

[ljtelfer]

Pulled the engine and removed the back cover. Everything looked pretty good. The I removed the stator shaft and then is when I found my problem. The gear was all tore up. Suprising all the other gears in the engine have no damage. Getting the replacement and I am back in business. Thanks for all of the help.

 

[joedrum]

your tuff most would have crumbled :clapping: :heat: :clapping: :yahoo: :yahoo: