stator/rectifier

[MrGeo]

:head bang: :head bang: I hard wired Rec/reg, all wires, (LTD) three stator wires, re-done the dog bones to 30 amp automotive fuses, re-configured the starter solenoid. (all posted in my photos) The thing starts and charges good 14.1-2, for a while, then it stops charging, not gradual, I watch the headlight on the front wall, it goes dim not slow but all at once like a switch was thrown. If I turn the key back and forth from power to no power 4-5-6 times and restart the bike a number of times it will eventually stay charging, my question would be this-is it possible to be the key switch or reg/rec? Sprayed cleaner on plug from key switch on right side of fairing by the fork, also the three plugs by the gas filling cap. Da Gremlin is hard ta find! :head bang: :music3: :music3:

 

[dan filipi]

It sure could be an ignition problem.

I'd have to study the wiring diagram.

 

[roondog]

I see there are no further posts. I know its been a while, but what was the gremlin that was playing havoc with the voltage?

 

[Omega Man]

roondog » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:23 pm[/url]":20viyvo3]
I see there are no further posts. I know its been a while, but what was the gremlin that was playing havoc with the voltage?

We may never know, MrGeo hasn't visited the forums in almost a year.

~O~

 

[roondog]

Well, it is always good to learn by other's experiences too. These older wings are complex but understandable in the right mind set, which I have yet to acheive.
Does anybody know of a good place to attach the black sense wire from the stator? I am not a wiring guru so I need the exact location and how to get there. I currently have one green to ground, the other green to the neg battery post. The 2 reds and black sense are barrel twist tied together and I have put a 10 gauge red from those that goes to the pos battery post.
I will most likely do away with the barrel nut and butt the 2 reds into the bigger red to go to the pos battery as as I understand that is where the R/R would send the voltage. I understand that the black sense needs to see 12 volts in order to have the R/R to be consistant in its output.
The 3 yellows are hardwired from the stator to the 3 yellows on the R/R. Am I missing anything? The original condition was 13.3 @ 3000 RPM and about 12.1 @ idle, with a fully charged battery. I just recently added the 10 auge red and separated the grounds which were tied together. Haven't put it all back together yet or hooked up the battery to see if it made a difference or not.
I have another R/R coming and I would like to wire it up correctly, without the plugs. Is there another active post I should be asking on? This a great forum with loads of info. Its just a matter of an active discussion and the right people for input. Thanks

 

[joedrum]

well I am not sure here ..... but as things go ..I would think your doing okay ... and I would play a bunch with the old stuff before the new rr comes sometimes you just have to dig in with eyes open...

 

[dan filipi]

I'm not all that familiar with the 1200 wiring but I've been looking through the repair manuals and came across the wiring diagram for the 85 1200. 3 pages.
A bit hard to follow.

And this is 1986 GL1200 Electrical Troubleshooting

 

[backlander]

As Dan pointed out the 86 electrical manual, also covers the 86 Sei fuel injected bike which should be very similar wiring wise to the 85 LTD fuel injected model.

 

[roondog]

ok, Here goes some pics and we'll take it from here. It looks like there is the original wire bundle that has all the cut wires. How about the black and white one. I wonder if that sees 12 volts. Might have to put the battery back in to check it.

 

[roondog]

Here are the rest. I know, too many? Well, i wanted to show as much as possible for the "big picture" to come accross.

 

[ekvh]

Do you have a snorkel? You are in deep.

 

[dan filipi]

Boy yes, looks like there's been plenty of wiring hacks.

What was the problem again?

 

[roondog]

you see the original harness or what looks like it? The black and white one might be a positive sense that I might hook the one from the R/R to? Basically, I have a new R/R inbound and I want to make sure I know where each wire is going as I plan to hard wire it.
Rfer to previous post of what I had questions on. Thanks all.

 

[mcgovern61]

Wow! Just....WOW!

There are some serious wiring issues going on there. First off, never.....EVER.....EVER......use wire nuts on a piece of machinery! Vibration can cause those wire nuts to come off and they are a great source for collecting moisture and corroding the connections. In your pics, there are quite a few bad splices with those butt connectors (exposed wire coming out of some of them).

It might almost be worth getting a good used 1200 harness from someone rather than tracing out that mess! :shock:

 

[roondog]

true, how true. It would be nice to get a good harness from someone. Oh, BTW, that black and white wire that looks like it is coming from what looks like the old wire bundle...... it is actually black and light green which might be a good thing according to the schematic, it goes to the fuse box. Hopefully it will sense the 12 volts needed to regulate voltage from the R/R.
Twist tie caps, barrel nuts, whatever they are called are not on the top of my list for doing wiring. Maybe grounds. I have already taken apart the forward one and getting ready to butt the wires there. I also think I will take the wire from the inline fuse that the 2 reds are on and put that on the pos side of the solonoid.

 

[roondog]

I have gotten rid of the barrel nuts and wired each wire separate and with all the wires I connected, I soldered. I did manage to get most of the mess off the positive battery post and onto the solonoid. Replaced the R/R, ran all new wires, cranker up and was great at 14..4 battery at 14.5-6. Now for the rest of the story. I have attached my results. Sad to say something is heating up and drawing the voltage back down.
I cleaned up the positive side best I could. Some still going to the post but more to the solonoid and I got rid of that big barrel cap and wired invidually. So.......Put the freshly re-charged battery back in and fired her up. Cold, initial readings fantastic, 14.6 @ 2750, a little higher about 14.8 at the batery. Idle at 14.1

Okay, so I let her run till she warmed up, cooling fan on. Battery ( B )checking post to post and voltmeter ( V )
B = 14.68
V = 13.9

Turned on accessory lights, no driving lights
B = 13.8
V = 13.0

Added the halogen driving lights
B = 12.7
V = 11.9

Driving lights off
B = 13.2
V = 12.4

All accessories off
B = 14.1
V = 13.5

After 20 to 30 minutes @ 2750 ALL accessories off
B = 13.2
V = 12.4

20 to 30 minutes at idle approx 1000 RPM
B = 12.25
V = 11.5

Holding @ 3000 RPM
B = 13.0
V = 12.2

The battery at rest after engine off and hooked up check in at 12.9

So........pretty extensive test? It seems something is definitely heating up as she warms up and holds @ 2750. I kept it there by applying a bungee cord and hooking that to a stationary point to hold the throttle at exactly 2750 the whole time.
Whats your thoughts?
The R/R is new, didn't get terribly hot, the sense wire is hooked to 12 volts on with the key on. all wires are hardwired.
Cranked her up when was cool, same good readings as before with 1550 being the warm up RPM's with 14.4. Turned on accessory lighting excvept driving lighs and she went down to 14.1 but bounced right back up to 14.4 Driving lights kept it around 14.1
Maybe anther R/R? Could my iffy stator be doing this also? Hmmmmmmm

 

[joedrum]

geee this is extensive numbers ....on a 1000 the three stator wires that go to the three wire connector or where its hard wired looks as though it is strait from stator... but in reality one of those gose up into the wiring harness and is a three wire connection there ... as one comes out to stator plug and the other goes to voltage regulator on a 1000 ... this connection on a 1000 is under the black wrap and one never knows it there ... I sure didn't ... but after exhausting all other things on a ststor that wasn't charging right I started to undo the black wrap of wiring harness and there it was ....all nice and corroded to a point of not operating right ...not saying this is your problem but same deal night be in your wiring harnest to

 

[Joep]

Have you tried disconnecting the sense wire and redoing the same tests? Your volt meter is definitely under reporting voltage...this may not bee corrected with the sense wire unconnected.. but see what the warm and idle voltages read..

 

[roondog]

I had disconnected the sense wire before and voltages were low. I connected it to the original blk/grn wire from the old harness and the voltage came up a little. I verified the blk/grn was hot with key on by a voltage light tester. I then tied the sense wire to another 12 volt sense coming from one of the accessory wires and the voltage went up a little bit more. I understand that the R/R needs to sense 12 volts and that will determine theDC going back to the battery as the R/R will put out what the the bike needs.
The situation now is everything is great with cold start but degrades when warm to operating temp. Can't get over 13.1 or so after everything is running for about 20 to 30 minutes. The R/R was from CALTRIC and stated it was specifically for the LTD & SEI but as we all know, they can be bad too. I think I will buy OEM. However, the hoky teadings initially from the stator with wires separated from the system seem to indicate the stator is bad.
I also have a slight oil leak around the back of the engine beside the starter that drips on the exhaust and smokes up around the seat area. The bike also smokes a bit. Probably just have to ride the devil out of it but not sure how far I want to be in this. I think it is worth saving. Not that many still on the road or roadworthy.

 

[joedrum]

okay .. it sounds like the rear caver is holding oil and not pumping back in crankcase from savenge pump ... this might also effect stator out put ... hmmm this is getting a bit big ...if it holding oil back there this is not good....but I am not saying it is ... could be be something else ...its really hard to fix this bike if it motor out deal but...dreading the thought is the worst part