Thoughts? Low RPM blues, and slight hesitation when given some throttle...

[Cervantes]

When I got my 79 Goldwing the owner told me he thought the carbs needed to be synced because it would sometimes run poorly, then clear itself up and run strong.

Well, today I took her on a real short ride. (Short because I am still waiting for timing belts to arrive, but I had to get it registered etc.) At first it seemed to run fine... maybe a little rough at low RPMs, but not bad.

After a mile or so it stalled at the first stop sign and was a hard to start. It would almost start but then immediately stall. Once I got it going, it was decent for a while, though it seemed to really hate lower RPMs. Also when it was rolling and RPMs were up, if I would throttle hard, it would hesitate, almost like it was going to stall, but then it would kick in and go.

The low RPM tendency to stall made me think the idle circuit in the carb may be plugged up a bit. But the way it would run good for a while and then poorly made me think perhaps the float valve is sticking either too open or too closed. I am not smelling any gasoline, but the feel sometimes reminded me of flooding.

Getting up the hill on my driveway was rough because I don't want to be going too fast, but lugging the engine at low RPMs like that makes it tend to stall pretty bad.

I am not a mechanic - so I thought I would throw it by you-all and see if I my thinking is logical and get your expert opinions.

Thoughts?
Cervantes

 

[dan filipi]

Could have a plugged vent in the gas cap. This will cause a vacuum in the tank which prevents fuel flow.
Try running with the cap turned to the first stop loose and see if that helps.

The vacuum slides could be sticking or could be a fuel delivery/pressure problem.

Have you changed the fuel filter and checked fuel pump flow and pressure?

 

[Cervantes]

Could have a plugged vent in the gas cap. This will cause a vacuum in the tank which prevents fuel flow.
Try running with the cap turned to the first stop loose and see if that helps.

The vacuum slides could be sticking or could be a fuel delivery/pressure problem.

Have you changed the fuel filter and checked fuel pump flow and pressure?

Hmm. Interesting thought. I will test the gas cap by running with it a little loose to let the air in. Good idea. I hadn't thought of that.

I have changed the fuel filter. I am not sure how to check the fuel pump flow and pressure. I assume I would need a gauge for that. I will ask my brother if he has any such tool.

I will do a search on:Vacuum Tubes, as I am not familiar with them.
Thanks!
Cervantes

 

[joedrum]

this is pretty typical on 1000 wings the carbs dont like to sit ....todays gas sucks compaired to what they are design for.....

frist thing id do is is put some ATF in the gas about 1oz per gallon or more this is alight dose .....crank it up you dont have to ride it ....pull the choke out just far enough to keep it from stalling this moves the thottle on all the carbs without realy choking it the 1000 have a choke only on number 3 carb but dose not come into play until it pulled allthe way out or almost all the way out ....you can probably get it to run at 2000rpm without pulling the choke very far sit with it while its running to make sure it dosent run to hot and cycle the fan ....or unplug it from the thermo switch and power it to run all the time making sure it running in thr right direction pulling air though the rsdiator....it will diffenutly run cool then ....or sit with it and watch the guage 79 have geat guage set up dont they....

while its running run the idle air mix screw in all the way in and back out 1 1/2 turn do this on all carbs ....let it run ....watch the guage .....ease the choke back in all the way see if its idleing better if it is pull the choke a little not much not as much as before ......watch the guage ....let it run .....push the choke all the way in by this time the guage sould be half way or better to 3/4 or so ....at this point giveit some thottle see how it rev... im betting it going to be a whole lot better....oh and like dan said this gose all the way back to the begining take the gas cap off ....so its not a factor.....watch it close and dont let it get hot at all
if it gose though all this and seemsto run better you probably wont have to do anything to it .....take a small trip gas cap off nice easy little ride dont even turn it off before you go if it seems better your in good shape and not much to worry about .......

you need to use ATF as a gas mix all the time .....you did check the gas tank out didnt you and drained it didnt you....and new filter to or im remembering wrong

if not this needs to be done......

 

[Cervantes]

This is great stuff for me to try out.

You know, as I think about it, when I opened the gas cap to check it, it made a sucking sound. (If this was a multi-brand forum, I am sure I would get jokes from the Harley riders suggesting that my bike sucks! ;-) I didn't think much of it at the time, because my old Alfa Romeos do the same thing (Insert "Alfas suck" joke here! ;-) So perhaps there is something to the idea about the tank lid not venting. I will try it.

As for the ATF in the gas... I bought some Marvel Mystery Oil and already put some of that in. I also bought some Sea Foam and was planning on running that through the next tank or two. Is it ok to add the ATF as well, or should I run through the current tank first? And if it is best to not mix the ATF and the other stuff, should I start running the ATF before the SeaFoam?

Yes, I did drain the old gas and replaced the filter.

OK, so let me see if I have the process right. Add the ATF. Run the engine at a steady 2000 RPM, using the choke as needed. While running, and keeping the temp down (I assume to no more than regular running temps), one at a time tighten the idle screws, then back off 1 1/2 turns.

Is that all correct? Is there any more info on this process on the forum? What do search or?

Thanks again. she really ran sweet when she wasn't choking and coughing and stalling!!! I won't be doing any long runs until I get the timing belt replaced, but I think if I get this issue, sorted out, plus replace the timing belts, I will soon trust it on a longer trip.

Thanks,
Cervantes

 

[Omega Man]

My cap sucks hard when removed. Are you saying this is a problem?

~O~

 

[joedrum]

yes ~O~ this is hard on the fuel pump to get gas to the carbs.....cervantes after reading your last post im almost sure that what dans said about the cap is your problem.....if i were you i would take the cap off and take it for a ride and see if that works i think it will and just forget what i said if it works

 

[Omega Man]

I haven't noticed a problem lately, but I'll back the cap off tomorrow morning before my ride to work.

~O~

 

[dan filipi]

I haven't noticed a problem lately, but I'll back the cap off tomorrow morning before my ride to work.

~O~

I wouldn't worry about it unless your having a problem but ya never know, it might run better.

If you find there is a vacuum being drawn on the tank that would be because the cap venting is clogged.
There's a one way valve inside the cap which should only let air in but not fuel vapors out.
I'm not sure they can be opened and cleaned but I believe the caps are available new from Honda.
I've read of drilling a 1/8" hole in the cap to let it vent, I think a new cap is a better choice.

 

[joedrum]

yes you undersood my post .....you sould get a reward or something understanding my misspelled words and jumble thoughts that remind me of a muilty car pile up on th interstate when i reveiw them before posting......this process is a way to maybe dislogde stuff and clean this area while running cleaner though it....

you sould consider running ATF in your bike from now on ......if the cap thing seems to fix your problem id just forget the seafoam and start useing ATF which has nothing but benifits to its use.....i always dump 8oz of ATF in when i get gas but i usealy let it get pretty close reserve or on reserve before i get gas ....

ive got a rotation of little 8oz containers i use that started out as 2 cycle oil bottles and keep them in the glove box of my 79 they stand up and fill the whole tray.....i think MMO you have in the tank is fine and dont start the ATF until you need gas....

 

[Cervantes]

All,
Thanks for all the posts. I feel like, if I keep riding my GW, and reading this forum, and fixing things as they come up, I will eventually get to really know this bike and be able to really care of it properly!

Joe, your posts are great and incredibly helpful!

If it ever stops raining, I will try the gas tank cap trick. I am still curious about the process you were describing. If the tank lid fixes things, I won't bother with the process, but either way - I would still like to understand it better. Mind if I ask a few more questions?

So, is the only reason to use the choke in this procedure to keep the RPMs up enough to not stall the bike when you cut the fuel of to the cylinders (one at a time of course)? My bike has one of those cruise-control thing-a-ma-jiggers. I assume that would work just as well, yes? Just keep the RPM about 2000?

How long do I leave it running? Just as long as it takes to do the idle air mix adjustment and then stop, or am I supposed to run it longer?

Last question. (for now ;-) You mentioned keeping the temp down… Is the point just to not let the bike overheat, or is are we trying to keep it especially cool for another reason?

Thanks so much,
Cervantes

 

[joedrum]

some yrs ago i left home to play music onthe road and was gone almost a yr and when i got home i discovered that my bike full of gas ...fuel left on ....and bike leaning on the side stand just about everything you could do wong and then let it sit .....from this i leard that gas can fill up the entire crankcase ...gum up all the carbs ....distory your exhast system....and diffutly not run...it was a geat class on all the info ive been posting ....some times out of dumbness theres a good side .....this was a long time before i knew anything about computers or goldwing forums so i blindly tried things to get my bike to run and i can tell you it took a long time for me to though the class and my bike running again but most of the stuff i figure out i still do today .....

yes the cruise ma jigger would be fine to use idont have one :cheeky:

in my case of stupidity this process took along time days ithink before i decided to add ATF to the gas ....im not a real smart man by worldly standards i was just throwing everything i could think of or had around to get my bike running feeling stupid the whole time.

the rpm was the only way i could get it to run.....

the scew twisting was the only thing i could think of...

and the temp thing was after all this stupidity i didnt want to melt it down....

after a while i could exactaly here stuff or gunk going though the motor .....

after some days i actuly got to the point i could go for a ride not a great one but with continual use of ATF it came back to life and as you said i got to know my bike and this led to even more insight....

its a good feeling to me to pass this experience on in such a way that its a good experience to others ...

 

[Cervantes]

some yrs ago i left home to play music onthe road and was gone almost a yr

I read this and almost asked what you played... then I looked at your list name "JoeDrum" and kinda figured it out! ;-) What kind of music? After years of playing the guitar poorly, I am currently learning bass! :music2: :music2: :music2:

So I went for a 10 or 15 mile drive, with my gad cap loose. It didn't do the outright stalling, and it was a bit easier to start after I shut it down half way through the trip, but it still really has a hard time keeping going at the low RPMs, and it hesitates when I throttle hard. And in fact, I noticed it seemed to skip a beat now and again even when cruising at high RPM.

So I am thinking the fuel cap was a factor, but that I have another issue as well. I noticed when I test drove it that the plates had been expired for some years. (I think they said 2007). So I am thinking that I have some of those same "gunked up" issues. I will try the ATF, the idle adjustment thing, and perhaps the Sea Form and see if it continues to improve.

I will keep you posted. It may be a few days before I know much because I need to burn through the current gas with MMO in it. But I will let you know. And any other ideas or suggestions are welcome! I am really hoping to not have to remove the carbs. I am still afraid of getting in over my head and beyond my mechanical skills!

Thanks to all.
Cervantes.

 

[joedrum]

as long as it is not back firing i think you will be okay......you sould just plan on rebuilding the entire ignition system....do you know if its still has points ignition...

if it gets to where your riding and it sounds like its missing real bad and sounding un balance dont rev it up to keep it going just stop and do what ever to get it home to big a chance to spin a bearing or something else bad dont do it......!!!!!!!!

when you get this thing right youll have something to realy depend on id take my bike anywhere

the weakess link on my bike is tires there always wearing out... :mrgreen:

 

[jdegase]

poor throttle response could also indicate a bad accelerator pump...
this is easy enough to change once you get the carbs out of the bike. (since I think this is your next step)
and not too expensive.
makes a huge difference in driving. and is most noticeable in the lower RPM range


keep at it. you got a nice bike to start with.

 

[dan filipi]

The 1000 carbs don't have an accelerator pump.

I also think the carbs will need to come off for a cleaning and rebuild but by all means, stick with your plan, it may just clean up.

Just occurred to me, the 1000 has points!
Have you replaced them and set the timing? That can make a huge difference along with valve adjustment.

 

[Andyb]

remind me of a muilty car pile up on th interstate when i reveiw them before posting.....

:smilie_happy:

 

[joedrum]

i forgot that you asked about music ....im a rocker mostly...any decade im old enough to cover many decades of rock nomatter what there sub catigory is called and when i get to old ill rock in my rocking chair but i will half to be chained in though.... :mrgreen:

 

[jdegase]

The 1000 carbs don't have an accelerator pump.

how did I miss that?

sorry, gl1000 is a bit different setup than 1100..

in that case I think you guys are on the right track... check ignition and plugs, and clean carbs.

Cervantes,
while we're on the subject. heres a link to a good site with loads of info.
https://www.randakks.com/

loads of knowledge available there.

 

[Cervantes]

Well, it is still cutting out, but I still need to run more fuel with the ATF and such before I actually start pulling the carbs off. If it comes to that I will have a lot of questions. Oh... and I will look at the points as well. And I suppose the condenser and cap etc. Someone said to use the points from a 650 Honda??? Any luck with that?

Before I bought the bike, some of you said these 1000s are solid, but a bit picky about needing a tuneup. I am really hoping that is all this is. Even if the carbs are the problem, I will survive.

But I have to admit that I am a little worried. I wish I knew more about these bikes. I suspect most of you would jump on, ride it around the block, and have a really good idea what shape things were in and what it needed.

I wish I knew a decent motorcycle mechanic in the area. Have y'all had good luck with the dealerships? I am concerned that they will charge way too much and that they will not know what to do with a 1979! But if I do need to pull the carbs, I wonder if I would be better off having someone more experienced do all the trickier stuff.

My belts came today, So I suppose that will be the next big project. At least then I can run more fuel through without worrying about the belt breaking on me!

I wish I knew how much engine noise was normal for these things. When it is about to stall, of course it sounds terrible. Any engine does at that point. But as I rode a ways yesterday I could hear a bit of a tapping from the engine. I noticed there was a lot of mechanical noises on the others I drove as well... So maybe it is normal. Or, it could be as simple as a valve tap, which will be re-adjusted soon anyhow. I just hope it is not something more serious. I thought I saw a thread on that recently... I will look around for it.

In the meantime, I hope I have some time this weekend to try the timing belts. I will read and reread (and even RE re read) the comments here, and have printed out a color copy of the step-by-step. I will write if I get stuck. I can tell this will be one of those jobs that is no problem the second time through. So long as I get it right the FIRST time through, it will be fine. I will remove plugs, and back off the valves all the way as recommended... just to be safe.

I really hope I can get this thing all sorted out and go on a road trip!!! It really has been helpful having this group to throw ideas by. There is no replacement for experience. Until I have my own, I appreciate being able to benefit from all of yours! (you-alls?)

Wish me luck :beg:
Jeffery (Cervantes)