Tuning or cleaning? Be the sleuth!

[kerryb]

'83 Aspencade starting issue, carbs rebuilt 2 years ago with Randakks kit and new oem needles and seats.
Symptoms:
Needs full choke to start when cold & is very cold-blooded for 5 minutes. ( nothing new here)
Idles well at 1100 (stock tach) excellent power and gas mileage.
Restarts are the problem...several seconds required with full throttle to restart, feels cold-blooded if allowed to "cool" for twenty minutes or more. My other wings will restart instantly when warm. I regret, I didn't test for the effect of choke on warm restart.
THE QUESTION: Do I need to clean the idle jets, or richen up the mixture?
Plugs look great after 2000 miles, no carbon, just light tan or lighter.
bike rested in a hot garage from April 22 - Jan '23
Ran 1/2 can of seafoam in the gas without much improvement.
Trying to have a plan before removing carbs...plan is, don't ruin a good riding day with parts on the floor.

Suggestions, & snide remarks are welcome.

 

[claydbal]

i would go ahead and clean the carbs now. get it over with.

 

[kerryb]

Thanks , I think I'll try richening the mixture first. 1/2 turn closed for a 50 mile ride should show me something. It's going to rain for three days later this morning, that's a good time to pull the carbs!
I don't often get an opportunity to play with my funky mixture screws!

 

[pidjones]

One half can of SeaFoam may be a problem. I'd flush it all out, and if using any fuel additive, do so only by manufacturer's directions. I've helped a couple friends with this problem. Additives are great if not abused. Might change plugs, too. Over-use of additives can mess them up.

 

[kerryb]

One half can of SeaFoam may be a problem. I'd flush it all out, and if using any fuel additive, do so only by manufacturer's directions. I've helped a couple friends with this problem. Additives are great if not abused. Might change plugs, too. Over-use of additives can mess them up.

Interesting you should say that, the seafoam was three tanks ago, and yesterday when I filled up with non alcohol high test, I began to see a little improvement.
Just got back from a short ride, (good thing I had my rainsuit) and the two restarts seemed improved. Maybe I was running too lean for an easy start....hmm .
Time will tell.

 

[kerryb]

i would go ahead and clean the carbs now. get it over with.

Normally I would agree, but these were spotless when I put them in service two seasons ago. They idle just fine after warmup, so that spoils my clogged idle jet theory. Accelerator pump nozzles all squirt well with good response. Tuning has always been my shortfall, so I'm going to try mixture adjustments first. Turning the mixture screws IN makes the mixture richer, right?
I don't have an accurate tach right now, so performance and plug condition are my tools today.

 

[mcgovern61]

A couple of quick questions. Is this the way it ran even since the original rebuild two years ago or is this a recent change?

 

[kerryb]

A couple of quick questions. Is this the way it ran even since the original rebuild two years ago or is this

A couple of quick questions. Is this the way it ran even since the original rebuild two years ago or is this a recent change?

Originally it was not an issue. Not as good as my factory tuned carbs, but pretty close. The problem appeared a little at the end of last season ( march 22) but has gotten a little worse this season (jan 23) which is why I thought the idle jets needed cleaning.
Turned my mixture screws in 1/2 turn this morning before a 20 mile ride, 2 restarts were way better. Interesting to see if this is a fliuke or just on it's way to being worse!

 

[naturlm]

If it's a minor pilot jets fouling you may be able to fix it by running a couple tank fulls of non ethanol gas with a shock treatment level of Yamaha Ring Free additive. I have found it works far better than sea foam for minor carb fouling problems.

 

[DaveO430]

Turning the mixture screws IN makes the mixture richer, right?

Wrong, and quit using high test.

 

[kerryb]

Wrong, and quit using high test.

Why, what's wrong with non alcohol fuel?

 

[kerryb]

Wrong, and quit using high test.

Thanks, found it myself too, "adjustment in the counterclockwise direction enriches the fuel mixture."
So, to prove or disprove my theory, I'll turn the mixture screws back out 1 turn and ride it .
Thanks, Dave.

 

[claydbal]

all carbs were spotless when they were put into service. lol thats an invalid argument. let todays fuel sit in a carb bowl for a couple months and it becomes something that is no longer fuel. more like gum and shellac!
nothing like putting a hole in a piston from lean burn, or galling a skirt from detonation. good luck.

 

[Denver]

Trans fluid 1oz or so to a gallon, helps to keep things clean.

 

[pidjones]

Why, what's wrong with non alcohol fuel?

Nothin wrong with non-alcohol - it is 100% preferred - BUT high test is NOT. Causes carbon build-up. These engines are designed for regular 100% gasoline.

 

[kerryb]

Nothin wrong with non-alcohol - it is 100% preferred - BUT high test is NOT. Causes carbon build-up. These engines are designed for regular 100% gasoline.

Ok, so I'll go back to using it just for storage with sta-bil in it. I actually found 89 octane with no alcohol, is that better or worse than 87 with 10 percent alcohol

 

[kerryb]

Progress report: turnd the mixture screws out one full turn resulted in better starts ( not a very thorough test) and smoother takeoffs at very low power. Some new plugs and a couple plug chops should tell the tale.
Thanks for your help!

 

[DaveO430]

Why, what's wrong with non alcohol fuel?

Nothing at all, just don't use high octane fuel. Contrary to popular belief it is harder to ignite and slower burning. 10% ethanol won't hurt anything at all.

 

[kerryb]

Thought I would make the mixture too rich by turning the mix screws out to 4 1/2 turns from closed. Instead, I got this result after a 20 mile ride. (New plugs) Starting is improved, not perfect but good. Any suggestions?, or leave it alone?

 

[tom collins]

'83 Aspencade starting issue, carbs rebuilt 2 years ago with Randakks kit and new oem needles and seats.
Symptoms:
Needs full choke to start when cold & is very cold-blooded for 5 minutes. ( nothing new here)
Idles well at 1100 (stock tach) excellent power and gas mileage.
Restarts are the problem...several seconds required with full throttle to restart, feels cold-blooded if allowed to "cool" for twenty minutes or more. My other wings will restart instantly when warm. I regret, I didn't test for the effect of choke on warm restart.
THE QUESTION: Do I need to clean the idle jets, or richen up the mixture?
Plugs look great after 2000 miles, no carbon, just light tan or lighter.
bike rested in a hot garage from April 22 - Jan '23
Ran 1/2 can of seafoam in the gas without much improvement.
Trying to have a plan before removing carbs...plan is, don't ruin a good riding day with parts on the floor.

Suggestions, & snide remarks are welcome.

I would check the float levels,
not enough fuel in them carbs.