'84 1200 engine for a '82 GW

[joedrum]

:hihihi:

 

[julimike54]

opcorn: opcorn:

 

[joedrum]

well brian pics say a lot .. i think yours is in rather good condition ... mine were in rather bad shape ...but you still clean things to the max .. i use shop vac to the max here ...and everything else too but kitchen sink ...all with smart hands not to damage

 

[canuckxxxx]

Getting those new boxes must have inspired me because I went into the garage and got busy. Ended up getting the 1100 engine out of the frame. :shock: :Egyptian: When I pulled the rubber boot back to get at the snap ring it was in a perfect position and I got it out the first try. Figured I was on a roll and better keep going. :music2:

frame with no engine

• canuckxxxx
• Jul 7, 2015

1100 engine out of frame

• canuckxxxx
• Jul 7, 2015

This is a big step forward for me because now I can take all the stuff off the back of the 1100 and put on the 1200, get the 1100 heads all cleaned up and valves lapped and pistons notched for valve clearance. All with both engines out and easily accessible.

Time for a cold one. :salute:
Brian

 

[joedrum]

opps brian the 84 1200 motor will accept 1100 iggy parts but not 85 1200, different motor ?

 

[canuckxxxx]

I know the title of the thread says '85 but I ended up buying a '84 engine so all should be good. :good:

 

[canuckxxxx]

So I am close to getting the 1100 heads ready to bolt onto the 1200 bottom end and start playing around with valve to piston clearance. I will be putting the heads on and off many times...so should I use the new head gaskets? Will they still be usable after? Was thinking of making some HG out of cereal boxes for temporary fitting. Or should I do valve to piston with now HG?

Thanks in advance
Brian

 

[slabghost]

I'd use the best old gasket for setting your clearances. I think the cereal box might be a bit thicker. Save the new gaskets until you are sure it's the final fit. Be certain both the block and heads are dead flat and smooth before you do your last check. better if you do that first. Then you'll know that the clearance is right and heads will be good for a long time.

 

[canuckxxxx]

slabghost » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:55 am[/url]":3faiu5dw]
I'd use the best old gasket for setting your clearances. I think the cereal box might be a bit thicker. Save the new gaskets until you are sure it's the final fit. Be certain both the block and heads are dead flat and smooth before you do your last check. better if you do that first. Then you'll know that the clearance is right and heads will be good for a long time.

Good advise, Slabghost. :good: I do have one good used gasket that I can use. What is the minimum clearances that you would consider acceptable?

Thanks :thank_you:
Brian

 

[slabghost]

minimum clearance I'm guessing should be at least 30 thousandths to allow for expansion after engine warms. I really don't recall just how much clearance Joe ended up with but it seems quite adequate. For my own peace of mind I'd probably double the clearance to 60 thousandths if I were doing this. I've been considering for some time now to have .040 thick aluminum plate cut as head gaskets then sandwich that between some high temp gasket material . So far I haven't though.

 

[ekvh]

You need a head gasket in there as the 1200 Pistons come past the edge of the block. I think they need to be 1200 gaskets too.

 

[slabghost]

Yes but the used 1200 gasket.

 

[joedrum]

clearence is a debateable topic to most but not me ....to me clearence is a good thing ... no reason to make it small as possible ...i never measured...doing them all the same is more important to get close between all pistons...... bluntly i wasnt going for small clearence ...i want clearence ....this makes the motor more safe than stock ...so i am rather sure my motor could jump a tooth and not hit piston more so than stock ..to me this was the important thing ...early cam high lift and great clearence ...as good or better than the mild cam motors

 

[canuckxxxx]

The new head gaskets I have are for 1100 but the big hole seems to match the bores of the 1200. What says you all? :beg:

Also, here is where hard reality clashes with the perfect world of the manual: :rtfm:

1. The exhaust valve seats on my 1100 heads had some pitting so I had to lap the crap out of them so now my valve seat widths are about double what the manual calls for. The solution would be a 3 angle valve seat grinding job. :head bang:

2. With valve guides and valve stems dry there is very slight back and forth play. In a perfect world I would be getting new guides put in and then a complete valve job. :head bang:

I can check but I have a feeling that having both heads rebuilt by a head guy would be way beyond my budget. :shock: But to be honest, I am thinking of going with it as-is. :blush:

At least for now. The 1200 bottom end I have is unproven. If I get it together and running with what I have, spending minimum money, and it runs good. Get >170psi on all cylinders. No bad noises. Then I can see looking for a better set of heads or getting these heads rebuilt. Heads are pretty easy to change out on an oldwing.

Brian

 

[dan filipi]

On head gasket, as long as sealing area is on good metal surface and not projecting into the cylinder at all it's good.

I'm not experienced enough with valves and seats to say what could cause problems down the road but I'd probably go with another good used head with good seats and valves.
Exhaust valve guides take a real beating so a used head may need guides too but it's not a show stopper imo. I've been reading oldwing forums for years and can't recall even 1 post someone replaced guides except for the job I did on the 1200 heads for Suzie.

 

[joedrum]

yep well the replacment guilds seals and all are junk in lot of cases ..and we had one come apart using after market seals in ... if it aint showing signs of failure ...just clean it up and go with it is my thought mostly

 

[dan filipi]

Not everything new is junk Joe, takes time and research to source good parts and use machinist that knows the difference.

 

[joedrum]

true kentucky winger sure got trashed on his project and the seals were totally different than stock design as i remember it ... man rubber hammer is really important here at seating things good ..so valve keepers dont slip out and are seated good

 

[canuckxxxx]

Well I have a sad tale to tell: been working my buns off getting the heads fixed up, fitting to engine, measuring valve/piston clearance (no issue), etc etc. :builder: .

Looks good

image

• canuckxxxx
• Jul 11, 2015

Today I put the big back cover on, put some oil in and did compression tests. Not good...a couple of 90s, and some 120s :head bang: . Didn't even write them down...not even in the ball park. I will do a few more checks to confirm but it looks like the bottom end is as bad as the heads. :rant:

$400...Flush :doh:

Comments, suggestions?

Brian

 

[joedrum]

:useless: iwant pics of cylinder brian up close .... :BigGrin:to me its foolish to think you cant improve a motor without machine work ...simply not true :nea: opcorn: