Another timing thread... running on two?

[McTrucky]

Hi all,


I bought a 1976 GL1000 over a year ago, that had been parked up since 1991. New belts, new battery, carb cleaned etc etc and I managed to get it started with lashings of 'EasyStart spray'. But it ran poorly (carbs or ignition seemed favourite) and life got busy and it ended up parked up unloved for the last year. I have started a few times over the months just to flush some clean petrol through the carbs.

Today I attempted to set the timing using a parallel hook up continuity light following the manual for static ignition timing.
First problem the points gap on set #3&#4 cylinders was tight. But I could not adjust much in - seemed to be at the limit of adjustment'; however they are opening to about 0.3mm.

Then I attempted the timing - F1 was very early, so adjusted that OK, but when moving the continuity lamp onto the other points spring I could not get it to light at F2. It did however light at the correct time for F1. I am also aware that when on the #1&#2 points, there was a glow on the lamp for most (all?) of the rotation, a very low glow - but I suspect it should have been completely out.

So I am asking questions before getting in any deeper - anyone heard of this before, is it a bad earth somewhere, or something?
I have attached a photo or two below - is there anything that looks obvious (e.g. wrong points ?) from this? The wiring generally is a mess - it had a sidecar at one point with lots of ancillary wiring added. I plan to get it on the road as a solo, but first thing is to get it running cleanly on all four cylinders.

Thank for any input.

 

[julimike54]

I know nothing about these but am wondering if you've gone through the service manual procedures...

https://classicgoldwings.com/media/...-1975-to-1979-service-manual-page-3-13.11138/

 

[Rednaxs60]

Second GL1000 timing issue in as many days. Timing is everything and one of the PITA issues with the early GW engines. getting to the timing port when the engine is running needs an timing inspection port cap, have to see through the oil being picked up by the crank and such. Have a suggestion for this.

Looked at the 1000 service manual for timing. Very similar to the 1200 engine. Only difference appears to be the full advance crank indicator is already marked on the crank whereas the 1200 full advance mark has to be user scribed. Noted that you need a timing inspection cap as I do but still a PITA to view. The 1000 engine full advance is at approximately 3000 RPM.

Have an '85 1200 FI model that I am doing an ECU replacement/upgrade project on - aftermarket ECU. Timing for the older FI models is align the crank mark with the camshaft pulley marks and good to go, no way to adjust timing. Timing with the new ECU is first and foremost to get right. Using the crank timing mark port is a PITA, my thoughts. I replaced the OEM crank trigger wheel with an aftermarket 36-1 crank trigger wheel, have fashioned a case timing mark pointer, and painted the teeth on the trigger wheel to suit #1 TDC and the engine timing in degrees.

A thin plate - 1 mm thick - or as thin and stiff as you can get, say 75 mm diameter, sandwiched between the crank timing belt pulleys would be sufficient to achieve an installed degree wheel. Make sure it is keyed to the crankshaft so it does not move. Pick a good spot for the engine case timing mark pointer, set engine to #1 TDC - mark degree wheel. From this, every 3 mm is equal to 5 degrees of timing. I mention a 75 mm diameter wheel because that is the same diameter as the trigger wheel I am using and the 3 mm is the thickness of one tooth and 3 mm is the thickness of on valley between the teeth. Here's a picture of what I am mentioning. You can see that one tooth and one valley between teeth equals 10 degrees:

The additional information is for my install. Disregard the engine at TDC notation. #1 TDC is wherever you make it on the degree wheel.

I view the timing marks from the left side of the bike, just a convenient location. Once the degree wheel is installed, viewing and adjusting timing can be done quite easily.

With the 1200 engine, Honda gives direction as to where the crank timing mark should be at idle and when full advance, and the RPM for these. Full advance on the 1200 is approximately 2800 to 3000 RPM.

Here's a picture of my install. Very easy to view and make sure the timing adjustments in the ECU tuning software are the same:

Have read and seen posts where static timing has been done. Installing a timing degree wheel permanently lets you see the timing in real time whenever you want, and is the cornerstone for everything that follows.

Good luck.

 

[McTrucky]

Thanks both,
Julimik54 - yes, the manual is how I did it.
Refnaxs60 - I think my problem is more fundamental than fine tuning. I don't get the lamp to come on static timing the right hand points, which I reckon means I don't get a spark. That is what is confusing me, is there something obvious to check (condensor, earthing, etc).

 

[julimike54]

I know from my car days and dual points it was check and replace everything if it wasn't adjusting out for me. Of course back then it was $10-15 in parts and I didn't spend much time trying to make old stuff work (youth is the definition of impatience). Anything that is electrical on these old bikes need to have the grounds verified before chasing your tail. Voltmeter is your friend.

 

[DaveO430]

How do you have the test light connected? If it is so the light is supposed to come on when the points break then the wire is grounded out somewhere. Disconnect the wires from the points and connect the test light there then to the battery + and see what you have. The light should be on when the points are closed and go off when the points break.

 

[McTrucky]

How do you have the test light connected? If it is so the light is supposed to come on when the points break then the wire is grounded out somewhere. Disconnect the wires from the points and connect the test light there then to the battery + and see what you have. The light should be on when the points are closed and go off when the points break.

Following the manual, made a Parallel hookup with one clip on the points spring and the other on earth. Light come on when the points open.

 

[Cobra 427 V8]

Hi , make sure you use a small bit of cardboard on one set of points when adjusting the other , you can actually get the timing correct on both sets of f1 and f2 marks , you might have heard of the split the difference timing , the reason for this is because the points plate and points slots are only stamped out and don't have enough range , it takes a fair bit of mucking around to get them both on the mark , but it can be done .

 

[McTrucky]

Hi , make sure you use a small bit of cardboard on one set of points when adjusting the other , you can actually get the timing correct on both sets of f1 and f2 marks , you might have heard of the split the difference timing , the reason for this is because the points plate and points slots are only stamped out and don't have enough range , it takes a fair bit of mucking around to get them both on the mark , but it can be done .

What do you do with the cardboard? That wasn't in the manual.

Yes read as much as I could find about timing these, but I am miles away from fine tuning.

 

[Cobra 427 V8]

Put a small piece of cardboard in the opposite set of points in the contact breaker gap , then time the other set , for static timing only , it will make your light go on off better .

 

[Dean Franklin]

Second GL1000 timing issue in as many days. Timing is everything and one of the PITA issues with the early GW engines. getting to the timing port when the engine is running needs an timing inspection port cap, have to see through the oil being picked up by the crank and such. Have a suggestion for this.

Looked at the 1000 service manual for timing. Very similar to the 1200 engine. Only difference appears to be the full advance crank indicator is already marked on the crank whereas the 1200 full advance mark has to be user scribed. Noted that you need a timing inspection cap as I do but still a PITA to view. The 1000 engine full advance is at approximately 3000 RPM.

Have an '85 1200 FI model that I am doing an ECU replacement/upgrade project on - aftermarket ECU. Timing for the older FI models is align the crank mark with the camshaft pulley marks and good to go, no way to adjust timing. Timing with the new ECU is first and foremost to get right. Using the crank timing mark port is a PITA, my thoughts. I replaced the OEM crank trigger wheel with an aftermarket 36-1 crank trigger wheel, have fashioned a case timing mark pointer, and painted the teeth on the trigger wheel to suit #1 TDC and the engine timing in degrees.

A thin plate - 1 mm thick - or as thin and stiff as you can get, say 75 mm diameter, sandwiched between the crank timing belt pulleys would be sufficient to achieve an installed degree wheel. Make sure it is keyed to the crankshaft so it does not move. Pick a good spot for the engine case timing mark pointer, set engine to #1 TDC - mark degree wheel. From this, every 3 mm is equal to 5 degrees of timing. I mention a 75 mm diameter wheel because that is the same diameter as the trigger wheel I am using and the 3 mm is the thickness of one tooth and 3 mm is the thickness of on valley between the teeth. Here's a picture of what I am mentioning. You can see that one tooth and one valley between teeth equals 10 degrees:

The additional information is for my install. Disregard the engine at TDC notation. #1 TDC is wherever you make it on the degree wheel.

I view the timing marks from the left side of the bike, just a convenient location. Once the degree wheel is installed, viewing and adjusting timing can be done quite easily.

With the 1200 engine, Honda gives direction as to where the crank timing mark should be at idle and when full advance, and the RPM for these. Full advance on the 1200 is approximately 2800 to 3000 RPM.

Here's a picture of my install. Very easy to view and make sure the timing adjustments in the ECU tuning software are the same:

Have read and seen posts where static timing has been done. Installing a timing degree wheel permanently lets you see the timing in real time whenever you want, and is the cornerstone for everything that follows.

Good luck.

What ecu?the ignition box near the fuses? I have an 86 and I opened that ignition box, and it could be an ecu I'll take a picture in a bit