Difficult start, not starting

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BIGmackie

BIGmackie

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
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Location
Oak Harbor, Wa
Ok, so I've been away for a little while on deployment and I think my bike got mad at me. Here's the latest and greatest on what I've got going on with my bike.

I pulled the carbs in December for a quick tune up and replaced the intake seals and the bike became difficult to start, wanted no choke, no throttle, and LOTS of cranking before it would fire up. About two weeks later, I winterized it preparing to go on deployment. When I came back from training two and a half months later (mid March) I pulled the carbs again to try and figure out what I had messed up checked the float bowl levels, pilot screw adjustment, cleaned the jets and passages. She fired right up with about half choke and ran like a bandit, but I needed to sync the carbs and didn't do it. I parked it again and left for deployment (didn't drain the fuel tank, forgot to put in fuel stabilizer) two weeks later, my deployment got cancelled and I came home again. Since then, it hasn't wanted to start at all. I'll crank and crank and crank, she'll fire up for about one second, sputter and die. If I try and give it a little gas and this will kill it right away. Right now, she seem to want no choke, no throttle. I haven't drained the tank at all or added fresh fuel, but the gas is only a month and a half old.

Oh yeah, the bike is a '83 GL1100A

What am I missing? Do I need to pull my carbs again and clean everything out?

Thanks in advance.
 
first, I'd make sure the filter isn't clogged and fuel is coming thru, if you are anywhere near the res. mark on fuel turn the valve down then try it, also check the fuel pump, pull the fuel line that goes to the carb and place it in a coke bottle to catch the fuel, turn the kill switch to kill and hit the starter buttom and make sure fuel is coming out of the pump while cranking.....do that first,,,it really sounds like fuel delivery to me..I could be wrong as I am often..
 
sounds to me like the carbs are dry and not ever getting filled ...this is what id do...1 turn the kill so the the bike wont start ...2take the plugs out ....3 take the hose off fuel pump to carb rack ...spin motor to conferm fuel from fuel pump....4 clean up a little ..5 take drain plugs off carb blows sould be able to with carbs on .....6 spin motor it sold feed the carbs rather fast ...watch to see all blows are feeding the same ....7 if they are clean up a little and then replace bowl plugs and spin it again to fill the bowls up souldnt take to long with plugs out ....8 put plugs back in and try to start if the battery is strong i always try to have a good car hook up to ge plenty of power to the bike but i have realy good cables and all ...anyway it sould start ....

if you cant get any fuel from the pump you can mouth siphon gas rigth to the fuel pump and it will prime it
 
I'm on the other side of the carbs and think they are leaking into the engine and fouling the plugs. Pull the plugs and check for gas on them. With the plugs out, see if gas spits out while cranking the engine.
 
Both good suggestions. I'd put in a good heavy dose of Seafoam in the fuel and top off the tank with fresh gas.
 
could it be one of those little red plug in things can't think of their name but there are three of them. little rectangles three prong and useally redish looking. on the starter side.under the side fack tank ? just a guess.
 
So, updates bases on these suggestions:

First, the ignition switch and on switch are both in the correct position. I've been flipping the petcock over to reserve because I suspected fuel delivery issues, buts it's got a little less than half a tank.

Second, I pulled the plugs to check for fouling early on in this process and the plugs were dry, correctly gapped and had a fat blue spark.

I haven't checked the fuel filter or fuel pump, but I've got a clear in-line filter that looks clean and I can see what appears to be fuel flow in the filter. I've also felt the fuel line heading into the carbs and can feel the surge of pressure in there. I know that none of this is definitive, but it leads me to think its getting something.

Tomorrow, maybe Friday I'll follow joedrums procedure to see if anything comes of it.

I'm not sure what little red things wmbill is talking about, maybe the spark unit? I had a bad one of those when I got the bike and it was replaced. I didn't get a spark when it went out, so I'm sure that's not the problem.

Please keep the suggestions flowing, many heads make less work and my mental capacity is pretty low these days.

Thanks!
 
Try spraying some carb cleaner down into the airbox(with the filter out) while cranking. If it starts and runs as long as you spray(short spurts), you know you have no fuel getting into the carbs....that should give you a definitive answer to the fuel issue. Could certainly be all the floats got hung up. Might also try tapping on each of the float bowls with a small hammer to see if that makes the floats drop.
 
OK, Here's what I get from reading the diagnostics and procedures attempted:

#1. You crank and get no life.
#2. If it does try to run on it's own if you touch the throttle or choke, it dies.
#3. The fuel in the tank is only 1.5 moths old and is about 1/2 full
#4. You haven't pulled the hose off the fuel pump to determine if the pump is suppling fuel to the carbs, or if fuel is being supplied to the fuel pump
#5. You haven't opened up any of the carb bowl drains to see if carbs are getting fuel
#6. You DO have spark when you crank
#7. Your plugs after cranking are dry and not fouled with gas or any other liquid


OK, problems indicate no fuel supplied to cylinders for combustion.

This is most probably due to one of three things:

#1. The fuel in your tank that was left in it from previous time, pre-deployment has "most likely"caused the carb bowl floats/pins to stick in the closed position. It could be due to ehtanol, bad gas, dirt getting past filter, etc..

#2. The ethanol in your fuel has allowed the in-tank fuel to "phase" out into water/ gas combo and you are putting water into your engine which as we all know has a hard time burning (but since your plugs come out dry after cranking, this doesn't seem to be the problem).

#3. EMGO fuel filter has deteriorated and cause blockages of the fuel inlet passages to carbs/bowls/passages... (see EMGO FILTERS REVISITED here on CGW) and the entire carb assembly will have to be removed and completely rebuilt... I don't suspect this one as yet.... It will become more likely that #1 is the case but if bike still doesn't run after exhausting all other possibilities this may be the only way to go...


Solutions: (each solution is for the three possibilities above)

#1. This will be confirmed by two things... (#1) fuel delivery OK from fuel pump during cranking (REMEMBER keep kill switch OFF so you won't accidentally have a spark ignite gas being pumped out of fuel pump during testing) AND (#2) no fuel coming out of carb bowl drains (after reattaching fuel pump to carbs and cranking once again with bowl drains open).

Remedy for this can be as simple as getting some Seafoam cleaner into the carbs and allowing it to loosen or dissolve the gum or varnish that is causing the floats/pins to stick (the EASY WAY) or removing the carbs and removing the float bowls and clearing the blockages manually, and then re-assembling the carbs and re-installing them on the bike (the HARD way).

The way to determine if lack of fuel delivery to the intakes of the engine is the cause of no-start is as described by AAPPLE, while cranking with spark and fuel turned on, spray carb cleaner into the intake plenum (with air cleaner removed) and see if bike starts and tries to run... if it only tries to run WHILE spraying cleaner, you have no fuel getting into engine.... this sounds like your case...

If you can get it to start with FULL choke and it keeps running, then you might be able to try using a HEAVY dosage of Seafoam in FRESH fuel (drain out that old stuff and go get some nice 87 octane regular, brand name gas) and just keep her running for a little while as the heat and vibrations of the running engine hopefully get all the floats opened up and working as before... then ride, use and enjoy.


#2.
Drain all gas out of tank, fill with fresh gas and stabilizer. Ride, use and enjoy.


#3.
Remove and rebuild carbs using a Randakk Total rebuild kit. Re-install carbs. Ride, use and enjoy.


Once you get her back to running condition follow this simple rule:
Never put gas into her without adding some sort of stabilizer in it! I personally keep a small 8 ounce bottle of STABIL marine formula (the GREEN stuff) in my saddlebag and EVERY time I fill up I add four ounces of it to the tank... this way if something comes up in my life that keeps me from getting back to my wing to "winterize" her for any reason, I will at least know that I shouldn't have any fuel related problems...

The ethanol in today's fuels is the cause of MANY issues like yours for untreated fuel in as short as three months in high humidity areas...


Hopefully this may help in getting your girl back on the road..


Rich
 
update:

I spent the better part of the weekend camping with the wife, so the wing got put on the back burner. After putting all the camping stuff away, I was able to play with my toys.

Started off by staring at it thinking of what could be wrong, then I sprayed some carb cleaner down the carbs (air filter removed) and let it ferment for a little while as I cleaned up my workbench preparing to pull the carbs and do a rebuild. After about 5 minutes I tried to start it and got it to go on one, maybe two cylinders. This got me thinking that perhaps it was sticky float bowls, so I started it again and lightly tapped on all four carb bowls with the back end of a screwdriver. Wouldn't you know it, she's bangin' on all four again. Gave it a test drive to warm it up and everything went fine.

Since she was running, I did a carb sync and put fresh fuel and some sea foam in, then took off for a 25 mile sightseeing tour. I've done three warmups since and everything is tip top. She had me worried for a bit there, but all I needed to do was show her that I still love her and now I'm outta the dog house.
 
yep its hard not to like this outcome .....you need to tell the generals that you cant be gone so long anymore .....that its hard on your oldwing .....good luck with that .... :hihihi:
 
BIGmackie":d7ozdzjw said:
...all I needed to do was show her that I still love her..
Click to expand...

...by beatin on her a little.... :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy:
Just kiddin! Glad ya got 'er running again! A few miles will definitely help out. :clapping:
 

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