GL1000 Hard Start after sitting a while...

[desertrefugee]

After Gerry mentioned his similar symptom and found it to be a flooding issue, I got worried and motivated to try and isolate my own condition. I was hoping like heck it was not flooding as I get irritated every time another carb problem comes up. I still might have one, but it's definitely not flooding.

After sitting for a few days, I did my normal thing. Choke, hit starter, fire several cylinders instantly - and then nothing. I opened the air cleaner and hit it with a shot of WD-40 into the plenum and it fired up.

The thing that still perplexes me is the initial fire and then nothing. If it were starved for fuel, where does that initial burst come from? I'll repeat the experiment, but with unseasonably cool weather in Phoenix this week, she won't be sitting idle for a while. I'd really like to fix what I have without going electric - if that's even the problem. And so far, it's more of an annoyance than an actual problem.

 

[slabghost]

Sounds to me like your choke linkage is sticky and the choke isn't completely closed.

 

[canuckxxxx]

My 1100 did the same thing as your 1000: if it had been sitting for a week or two it would take a lot of cranking to start. I always suspected the mechanical fuel pump.

Now with the 1200 engine and electric fuel pump, it starts right away even if having sat for a long time. And that is with the same single carb. setup swapped over to the 1200. Now I turn the ignition switch on, listen for the pump to pump until it stops then hit the start button. The gas must go somewhere because the pump does pump a bit longer to fill the carb up after a long sit.

 

[desertrefugee]

Well guys, I think I may have an explanation for this behavior (the hard starting after sitting for a while).

Very briefly:

1) Fuel formulations are MUCH more volatile today than 20 or so years ago.
2) Modern fuel systems are sealed - the old GL most certainly is not.
3) I live in Arizona where:
a) It is hot
b) It is dry
4) Surprisingly rapid evaporation results.
5) The good news is that, with those accursed more modern formulations, the residuals are reduced (i.e. varnish).

I've pretty much confirmed this by opening bowl drains after a week and getting only a trickle. Also, introducing priming fluid gets instant fire. I believe I will soon (like when the garage gets below 150) install the 1200 fuel pump I have stashed. Won't solve the evaporation, but will hopefully reduce some of the starter grinding before it lights off.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[dan filipi]

I think at those temps the fuel in bowls can all evaporate away quickly leaving residuals in the fuel that can easily plug tiny jets, especially the idle jets. I've made it a habit to turn the gas off and let it idle to empty the bowls as much as it can if I'm going to let it sit more than a week. May help may not but I think it's better than leaving the bowls full.

 

[julimike54]

Do you use ATF in the fuel? I've not noticed this issue on the 1200, myself. Wondering if the ATF I run is why?

 

[desertrefugee]

Hmm. I don't. I rarely use any additive at all (and I know it's recommended). Now that I'm not riding much - during the summer furnace season - would be a good time though. Maybe I'll throw some in there. Once in a while I'll throw in half a can of Berryman's. Once or twice a year.

Wonder if that makes a difference?

 

[slabghost]

desertrefugee » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:53 am[/url]":2zyqdvso]
Hmm. I don't. I rarely use any additive at all (and I know it's recommended). Now that I'm not riding much - during the summer furnace season - would be a good time though. Maybe I'll throw some in there. Once in a while I'll throw in half a can of Berryman's. Once or twice a year.

Wonder if that makes a difference?

One way to find out.

 

[D-50Dave]

I'll add to the testimonials regarding ATF. I've never added to the gas during the riding season; only to over winter. I decided it would be a good thing to start doing after reading so much about it here, and I had an ancient bottle on the shelf in the basement. I haven't noticed any difference with the 'Wing, but on my "little bike" (Twinstar) its made a very obvious difference. I've had to run 89 octane because it ran weakly on 87, and it sounded like the timing chain adjuster was wearing for all the engine noise. The ATF has quited the engine and it runs stronger up hills that it struggled with previously. FWIW, Dave

 

[desertrefugee]

Well, guys, the hard start issue is unchanged. Mainly, because I haven't done anything! Just to recap, I have conclusively determined that, for whatever reason, my float bowl fuel levels drop and the bike needs to grind a while before it starts...and, no, it's not going into the crankcase. I only really see this behavior during this time of year when I ride it very little and it sits for a week or more sometimes. During riding season, it gets exercised often enough that it just isn't a problem.

As much as I dislike the notion of "needing" some configuration other than stock, I did mention that I have an OEM 1200 fuel pump that I could wire in through switch to prime the carbs before starting. But, is there a consensus here on just how it should be plumbed? Can't be inline because if it's not running, it'll present an obstruction. I've almost got myself convinced to swap over to the electric pump entirely, but I actually love the look of the mechanical marvel.

So, whaddaya think? Parallel runs to a "Y" with inline valves? Or just go electric? ...in which case I'll need a reminder how to get rid of the camshaft extension driving the pump. Is it solid all the way across? <Ugh>

 

[slabghost]

Could try to Y the feed from the tank and Y the discharge to the carbs. So you'd have a parallel fuel circuit with the electric pump hidden and operating only when you want it.

 

[joedrum]

Hmmmmmm that gives me some idea on what I might do to hooch ....

 

[desertrefugee]

I'm on it. Dug out the 1200 pump. A bit too much surface rust to remove on the rear part of the case and the clamp. I chrome painted them. Looking for the best way to mount it. I do not have the 1200 mounting bracket. Looking for one - or an alternative method of mounting.

 

[slabghost]

Maybe just zip tie it to the original fuel line hidden up high near the bike center? Not sure but you may need to add a ground to the case with a hose clamp.

 

[desertrefugee]

OK. So, if the heat doesn't kill me, I might get this done soon. The conversion to a 1200 electric pump, that is.

I have these two widgets on the way courtesy of ebay (where GL parts are usually available pretty cheap if you dig):

To provide adequate clearance for the 1200 pump, the mechanical pump needs to go.

 

[joedrum]

Hmmmmmm there oil there ....might be a bit more work there to get it done good ...there's no cam seal on the cam there ...and if you put one in I'm not sure the tack could operate without oil ...so I'm not what's the best way to go about it .....

 

[desertrefugee]

No, no, no! I guess I didn't explain it very well. I'm not interrupting the oil flow. I got that spare housing so I won't be hacking my original. I'll be cutting it where the red line is below. Then I'm going to have a fellow weld on an aluminum plate to cover the hole. Then I'll polish up the entire housing. I'll keep the tach drive oil flowing and make room for the 1200 pump.

 

[joedrum]

That will work fine then it seems

 

[desertrefugee]

Yeah, I blatantly stole the idea from one of the long time gurus over on NGW.

 

[desertrefugee]

Just about done with installing the 1200 fuel pump. Almost didn't have room for the tach cable with the 1200 bracket. Also, it appears that the 1200 outlet is 3/8" and the 1000 carb inlet is 1/4". I guess I'll need to reduce it. Didn't see that one coming. Got the relay in hand, but the dewpoint is 75 degrees and the temp is approaching 95F. Tomorrow is another day. But, I'm close! And I'll need this electric pump to fill those huge bowls on the Webers ... coming up next.

This is what I started with. My son's friend is supposedly a TIG wizard. He's not bad, but I had a fair bit of smoothing to do before it went onto my machine.