GL1200 overheating

[joedrum]

i think all the bubbling in the system is the air trying to get out of a resticted area of the system somewhere. maybe take plug in the head out. i think you said when checking flow and shoot compressed air there might break something loose. i think you're going to get this 1200 fixed.

 

[dan filipi]

In an attempt to just verify the coolant quantity as the book states as being 3.6 qts for both the 1100 and 1200, I drained mine empty and refilled. So far I have almost 3 qts in including the reservoir filled to "full". I'm letting it cool with a fan in front to see how much more gets sucked in. It has already sucked in about a cup which is all it usually does when I change coolant so I dont think it'll pull much more in.
At this point I think the manual is wrong and the cooling system quantity is more like 3 qts. and I've been chasing a non existent air pocket but I'll see what it ends up at after cooling awhile.

 

[dan filipi]

At this point I think the manual is wrong and the cooling system quantity is more like 3 qts.

Yep, manual is wrong!
The owners manual says cooling system capacity is 2.9 qts so I've benn chasing my tail on this one :head bang:

 

[mcgovern61]

At this point I think the manual is wrong and the cooling system quantity is more like 3 qts.

Yep, manual is wrong!
The owners manual says cooling system capacity is 2.9 qts so I've benn chasing my tail on this one :head bang:

Now that just stinks! :rtfm:

I guess we can scratch that off the list. One of my previous posts I suggested adding coolant after it burps to see if you ever reach a point where there is no more air. Did you ever get a chance to try the exhaust gas test again?

 

[dan filipi]

Did you ever get a chance to try the exhaust gas test again?

Not yet, that's next on the list.

 

[mcgovern61]

Out of curiosity, have you tried running without the tstat to see if it still bubbles? (Just another flow test idea.)

 

[dan filipi]

I've tried both with the tstat in and out same results.

I found when I pulled the plugs this time number 1 is cleaner (wasnt earlier) than the rest which are sooty.
Also number one spits back into the intake occasionally and has a valve tap I cant adjust out.
These signs are telling me there must be something up with that cylinder.

I think since it's taking enough water and it appears to be flowing ok that rules out a fill and flow problem.
What I'm going to do next is another exhaust gas test.
If the test is accurate and it confirms my suspicion, either the right head is cracked or the head gasket is leaking.

 

[mcgovern61]

I've tried both with the tstat in and out same results.

I found when I pulled the plugs this time number 1 is cleaner (wasnt earlier) than the rest which are sooty.
Also number one spits back into the intake occasionally and has a valve tap I cant adjust out.
These signs are telling me there must be something up with that cylinder.

I think since it's taking enough water and it appears to be flowing ok that rules out a fill and flow problem.
What I'm going to do next is another exhaust gas test.
If the test is accurate and it confirms my suspicion, either the right head is cracked or the head gasket is leaking.

I agree, flow is verified, capacity OK with or without tstat. Exhasut gas is next and I agree that #1 might be the issue. Rt head has been the problem spot from the beginning.

 

[joedrum]

unless i'm missing something the flow on your video without the tstat and motor not running shows signs of restricted flow and not continuous and the way the water jumps back down tells me that the flow to the pump is restricted and whatever the number 1 cylinder is doing its not doing it with the plugs out.

 

[dan filipi]

Good points Joe.

When I measured coolant in mine I started it and noticed the level does not drop when reving the engine like it does on the 1200 so I agree it does appear there is a restriction to flow on the pump discharge side.
One problem in doing the comparison though is the 1100 has a bypass passage in the block which the 1200 does not, and the bleeder hole in the 1200 thermostat is larger than the 1100.
This could account for that drop when reving?

 

[joedrum]

i dont think so. the water comes into the pump from radiator and pushes through the motor then up to the thermostat housing and out . the fact that with thermostat out that the flow slows way down instead even flow. tells me its restricted in the motor somewhere and when you rev it up and it pulls down tells me its getting push back.so much so that it is the most visable movement. again i would go after everything i could think of to flush out the water cavities something is just about blocked off i dont think its completely blocked but enough to take the pump down to where its just spinning and can't circulate right .

 

[dan filipi]

Once it cools and I can get the cap off I'll take another look at what the water level does when I rev it up. A restriction on the pump discharge side is making more sense to me Joe.

I did the exhaust gas test again.

On all the tests the thermostat is out and using tap water.
New radiator cap is on.
I've disabled the fan so it will get good and hot.
In between each test I blew clean compressed air into the reservoir to get rid of old traces of exhaust.

Test 1 with All plugs firing:
Everything seems fine until it starts to boil over into the reservoir then the blue fluid turns green. (Turning green indicates exhaust gasses present.)

Test 2 with right plugs unplugged:
Same results as test 1

Test 3 with left plugs unplugged:
Same as test 1 but took slightly longer to turn green

My conclusion:
If this tester will only change color with exhaust gasses then it means both sides are leaking exhaust gasses into the coolant.
If this tester is voided by water vapor then these tests means nothing.

I think the next test should be with the radiator cap off and taped closed so any air will go into the reservoir like I tested the last time, but then again if water vapor voids the test then this wont mean anything.
I'm trying to find out about that right now.

 

[dan filipi]

I ran it again, tstat out and cap off. The water doesnt drop when reving it up so that would be telling me IF the water is flowing then there is no discharge side restriction, right?

Something doesnt make sense here.

I had a blown head gasket on 2 occasions, 2 different 1100 engines.
The leaking gasket was pretty obvious because I saw alot of bubbles into the recovery.
What I did not get is this overheating problem. It definately ran warmer but it never got hot like this 1200 does.
Even the first one which had a notch missing from the aluminum cylinder wall didnt run hot like this thing does.
Gauge would run a bit above middle around town when normal is below middle.

All the auto's I've worked on that ran hot on the freeway like this thing does always came down to a clogged radiator, every time.
Every time the auto's ran hot on the street but cool on the freeway it came down to a fan problem, usually a bad fan clutch.
I think maybe I had one bad thermostat in all of them.

This thing is acting like a clogged radiator.

I had tried hooking up a old 1000 radiator I have and didnt seem to help but I dont know the condition of that one, it could be clogged also.
I think I have to pull my 1100 radiator and try it. I KNOW it's good.

 

[Joep]

Dan with the radiators off and side by side.. heft them and see if one feels heavier than the others,,.. if the two that you are using fo the 12 are heavier.. then you may be on to something ,, not definative but at least if there were solids in it you would know.. this may not get any answers and all 3 could weight boout the same but..can't hurt.. and I hope you bought stock in prestone!!!!

 

[joedrum]

this 1200 is realy putting up a fight the water level not going up and down with tstat out is not what i thought it would do. the next time you run it take the top hose off the radiator but leave it connected to motor still have the hose going up to the radiator and run the motor tstat out and see if it pushes water good enough to get in the radiator im not sure it will. the restriction could very well be on the radiator side or suction side either way its got to push water to top of the radiator. ithought you said the radiator professionaly redone. if your thinking of taking the radiator out instead of putting another radiator in right away see if you can hook up the pump to a open container you can put water in certainly no restriction and see if the pump wakes up and pumps strong

 

[dan filipi]

Yep, radiator was professionally done but one question was asked here "did I see it done" and that has me wondering now.

To satisfy my curiosity before tearing the heads off to look for a leak or crack I'm a gonna have to put my radiator on it and go for a ride.

 

[joedrum]

that would answer this deal and a ride to boot

 

[mcgovern61]

Yep, radiator was professionally done but one question was asked here "did I see it done" and that has me wondering now.

To satisfy my curiosity before tearing the heads off to look for a leak or crack I'm a gonna have to put my radiator on it and go for a ride.

GO FOR A RIDE! :rtfm: THERE'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE FUN INVOLVED HERE, THIS IS SERIOUS STUFF!!!

Actually, I envoy you on the fact that you CAN go for a ride! :smilie_happy:

 

[AApple]

I can't see a leaking head gasket/bad head causing this thing to get that hot, that quick, without mixing in with the oil, and/or blowing the coolant out of the rad...that just don't make any sense in my pea-sized brain.
I know mine will start the temp gauge swingin to the "HOT" side anytime I'm just sitting still, in traffic, especially after coming off the hi-way. That leads me to believe, as others have pointed out, that there's really not a lot of coolant flow at idle on these things. I shudder to think what it would do in a parade on a hot, Texas summer day! :heat: :heat:
A restriction on the suction side would certainly explain the low flow...if it cain't get in, it cain't go out!

 

[joedrum]

that dose it im going for a ride 42 degrees i dont think me or my bike is going to overheat but im going to check it out anyway.