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I hear a dead hole, too.
Help diagnose by listening to my sick 1982 Goldwing GL1100
- Thread starter CreatorsDream
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How much ATF do you add to your gas?joedrum":zqzy6w2q said:
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Definately one not firing. The plug wires can be a real issue. I know you cut off the ends and put them back together, but there could be a crack inside the end (not uncommon). When I was first working on my '81 engine, it sounded just like that. Replaced the plug wires and caps and it helped, but not completely. In the end, the carbs were the culprit. Carb slides were sticking, floats adjusted incorrectly (was a big problem) and just plain gummed up. Had the carbs rebuilt and I reset the floats and it was a whole new bike!
Before carb rebuild:
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS-71Bs_1Oc[/video]
After carb rebuild:
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-SnkdhcdII[/video]
Before carb rebuild:
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS-71Bs_1Oc[/video]
After carb rebuild:
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-SnkdhcdII[/video]
paddy.shadow
Well-known member
As I said, I'm still leaning towards carbs......
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Gerry, your bike sounds good in that second vid.
Which engine is that?
Which engine is that?
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The first one is the '81, the second one is the '83. Same '81 carbs, same exhaust (aftermarket Jardines).dan filipi":119om4uk said:
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CreatorsDream
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Okay, so I took some video last night and ran a few electrical tests. I'm editing the video now and will post it as soon as I get it up on youtube. However, I want to go ahead and report on some of my electrical findings which I hope you guys can help me with.
1. Ohm readings on the pulse generator passed. Book says 530 +/- 50 ohms. Ohm meter reading shows .555 on the white/blue leads and .577 on the white & yellow leads. I'm assuming my multimeter is set for thousands and the decimal brings it into spec? (see picture of RadioShack multimeter in this thread.)
2. Spark Unit seems okay. Blue/Yellow 11.75 volts before ground and 1.19 when grounded. Also Yellow wire shows 11.73 volts and 1.145 volts when grounded. Honda service manual states, "Voltage unit is normal if voltage drops from 12 volts to less than 2 volts when grounded.
3. BAD RECTIFIER! NO readings on reverse direction on the green and yellow leads and only 1.0 ohms on normal direction. I just couldn't get any reading which should have been 6000 ohms in reverse direction and 5-40 ohms in the normal direction. Could this be the cause of both #3 & #1 cylinders on the right side not firing?
NOTE: I did Dan's spray water test on the exhausts as you will see in the video and it showed no fire on both cylinders on the right.
So here are my questions...
What does the rectifier actually do?
How do I test my plug wires to see if they are bad? I put new caps and new plugs in and cut 1/4" off the ends of the plug wires. I noticed the plug wires have several individual strands of copper wire in them and thought I read somewhere that the plug wire should be solid. Maybe when I screwed the caps into the wire I sheared them off? I just can't figure out why BOTH cylinders on the right side are not firing.
So now I'm going to go off on a tangent. Randakk's tip on Ballast Resistors, which I have not checked, started me thinking about where and why electrical current is sent to the plugs. Here's a direct quote that made me wonder about how the GL1100 gets its electric juice... "Through clever wiring, the power to the coils is always routed through the ballast resistor unless the starter is spinning - in which case the ballast is by-passed." This statement put up a red flag for me. Seems that when the starter is spinning, as when I'm doing the visual spark test is totally different then when the engine has cranked and the starter is no longer engaged. Could this be why I am seeing spark from the spark test, yet not getting any spark ie; no heat in the exhaust pipes after engine is running?
1. Ohm readings on the pulse generator passed. Book says 530 +/- 50 ohms. Ohm meter reading shows .555 on the white/blue leads and .577 on the white & yellow leads. I'm assuming my multimeter is set for thousands and the decimal brings it into spec? (see picture of RadioShack multimeter in this thread.)
2. Spark Unit seems okay. Blue/Yellow 11.75 volts before ground and 1.19 when grounded. Also Yellow wire shows 11.73 volts and 1.145 volts when grounded. Honda service manual states, "Voltage unit is normal if voltage drops from 12 volts to less than 2 volts when grounded.
3. BAD RECTIFIER! NO readings on reverse direction on the green and yellow leads and only 1.0 ohms on normal direction. I just couldn't get any reading which should have been 6000 ohms in reverse direction and 5-40 ohms in the normal direction. Could this be the cause of both #3 & #1 cylinders on the right side not firing?
NOTE: I did Dan's spray water test on the exhausts as you will see in the video and it showed no fire on both cylinders on the right.
So here are my questions...
What does the rectifier actually do?
How do I test my plug wires to see if they are bad? I put new caps and new plugs in and cut 1/4" off the ends of the plug wires. I noticed the plug wires have several individual strands of copper wire in them and thought I read somewhere that the plug wire should be solid. Maybe when I screwed the caps into the wire I sheared them off? I just can't figure out why BOTH cylinders on the right side are not firing.
So now I'm going to go off on a tangent. Randakk's tip on Ballast Resistors, which I have not checked, started me thinking about where and why electrical current is sent to the plugs. Here's a direct quote that made me wonder about how the GL1100 gets its electric juice... "Through clever wiring, the power to the coils is always routed through the ballast resistor unless the starter is spinning - in which case the ballast is by-passed." This statement put up a red flag for me. Seems that when the starter is spinning, as when I'm doing the visual spark test is totally different then when the engine has cranked and the starter is no longer engaged. Could this be why I am seeing spark from the spark test, yet not getting any spark ie; no heat in the exhaust pipes after engine is running?
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Your testing 2 completely separate systems.
The rectifier has to do with the charging system.
The ballast resistor and and spark units has to do with the ignition.
We need to keep these 2 systems totally separate when testing.
In troubleshooting the running condition don't even look at the charging system for clues.
Normally as long as the battery has at least 12 volts it will run fine.
Since you have spark during crank and the one side is firing then the ignition is getting enough power to run.
The cold exhaust means that side is either not getting any gas or it is flooding out the spark from too much gas.
When it's running, can you smell gas?
If so it's too rich and flooding out the spark and that is why that side's exhaust is cold.
The rectifier has to do with the charging system.
The ballast resistor and and spark units has to do with the ignition.
We need to keep these 2 systems totally separate when testing.
In troubleshooting the running condition don't even look at the charging system for clues.
Normally as long as the battery has at least 12 volts it will run fine.
Since you have spark during crank and the one side is firing then the ignition is getting enough power to run.
The cold exhaust means that side is either not getting any gas or it is flooding out the spark from too much gas.
When it's running, can you smell gas?
If so it's too rich and flooding out the spark and that is why that side's exhaust is cold.
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The ignition resistor is bypassed while cranking to allow a full 12v(or batt voltage) to the ignition. Once the engine is running, 12v is not needed, and the resistor then lowers the voltage to the coil(s). It's to prolong the life of the ignition components, as a full 12v all the time would overheat them, and they would fail sooner.
I would be curious to know if there was 12v on the supply side of the resistor after the engine starts, and what the voltage is on the output side after it starts. Since you have firing while cranking, but not while running, to me that points to a resistor problem.
Then again, I'm not as knowledgeable on these 'Wings as the other guys here....I'm just thinking out loud, and going from my automotive experience. :mrgreen:
I would be curious to know if there was 12v on the supply side of the resistor after the engine starts, and what the voltage is on the output side after it starts. Since you have firing while cranking, but not while running, to me that points to a resistor problem.
Then again, I'm not as knowledgeable on these 'Wings as the other guys here....I'm just thinking out loud, and going from my automotive experience. :mrgreen:
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CreatorsDream
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Dan & AApple, thanks for your input. Maybe the following video can help further your analysis...
I still need some feedback on the following...
How do I test my plug wires to see if they are bad?
Do plug wires have a strand of thinner copper wires or is it one single large gauge wire?
I still need some feedback on the following...
How do I test my plug wires to see if they are bad?
Do plug wires have a strand of thinner copper wires or is it one single large gauge wire?
aout the only thing that will cause the two clinders on e sife to go dead is the fuel tranfer tube from the carbs from one side to the other or just carb problems on both carbs on that side ....its got good spark ....th spark gose front to back not side to side so the spark is goo period the only othe thing else that will do it is timing belt being off on the right side ...this is the side that easy to get off and many have touble with because of spring pressure ...my 83 was off when i got it ...id take the timing belt cover off and check the timing on the right side ...that would be my first move unless you know its right already ....sure seems like it and if not that it the carbs some where ...in the transfer tube or carbs on that side ...but your ignition is fine IMHO :mrgreen:
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First of all....listening to the video, when you first start the bike (first time) you can hear that there is gas in the cylinders. Did you notice that the starter slows just briefly during that start. That is caused by gas in the cylinders (ask me how I know!). That is enough liquid in the cylinder to almost hydrolock the engine, but not enough and the starter overcomes the gas. I am under the opinion that it is primarily carb related.
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CreatorsDream
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joedrum":glfwozx3 said:
Joe, thing is I'm getting gas on the side that is not firing because I can smell it. So I'm assuming that you mean that the fuel transfer tube would be clogged and would not let gas get through. Is that what you mean?
joedrum":glfwozx3 said:
I never questioned the right side when I replaced the timing belt because it is right on 9 o'clock. The one I had a hard time with is the left side because it is not at 3 o'clock. As you can see in this drawing from the Honda service manual, the left timing mark is at around 3:15. Isn't that the way it's suppose to be? Just asking...
BTW, why are all my attachment uploads so small? Is there another way to upload photos so they retain the original size?
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CreatorsDream
Active member
AApple":1jfn31gz said:
Joel, I'm leaning in your direction. Do you know how to safely take the resistor measurements while the engine is running? I still think I'm having electrical issues. Haven't had anyone comment on how to check spark plug wires from the coils to the end of the spark plug while the plugs are out, nor if the plug wires are multi-stranded or one single wire. See, even though I replaced the caps and plugs, I may have inadvertently sheered the wire while screwing in the caps.
Thanks for your feedback!
btw, why is everyone so keen on solving the problem with a carb rebuild? Seems to be the answer I'm reading all over the place, yet even Randakk's says to go into the electrical before doing the carbs.
Just trying to remove all other possibilities before I bite the bullet on the carbs...
paddy.shadow
Well-known member
I've been where you are at, and tried everything and a couple of months to solve the problem....electrical,miracle cures , seafoam etc. My "83 aspy sounded identical to yours.......I finally bit the bullet and did the carbs....problem solved !
the transfer tube is actualy a restricter that reduces flow ,,,and sometimes is left out ...it can cause over feeding of the gas on that side ...an unequal transfer ...but it could be just two bad carbs acting up on one side.....the tranfer tube can esyly cause flooding by over powering the float needles too ...the spark cant be bad on one side and good on the other except in some realy unlikely cercumstances....the spark seems weak on that side proably by being drowned by gas id say .....my 83 was a combination of things that were wrong ....timing belt off and carbs ....with todays gas its most like the culprit in the carbs and almost all neglected oldwings get pluged meaning ones that arnt runn all the time ......but your the man with hands on the bike good luck .....you could switch wires from strait over from side to side 1 for 2 and 3 for 4 and try to to rum it then ....its a waist spark system 1 and 2 spark together and 3and 4 spark together if it still runs the same way its the carbs ....this is a sure way to tell if it is carbs or spark..... :mrgreen:
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When was the belt change done?
Have you done a compression check?
1. All plugs out
2. Kill switch to kill, OFF
3. Wide open throttle
4. Fully charged strong battery so all 4 tests crank at the same speed.
Post the numbers for all 4.
I was going to suggest swapping the plug wires also.
This can be done at the coils. There is a screw on compression cap.
Once swapped if the problem moves then it's wires. If it does not move then it's fuel, compression, or valve timing related.
I had a flooding carb which cooled the exhaust just like your right side.
It turned out the one carb had a bad needle and seat. Once fixed the exhaust temp came right up.
I got to the point where I was tuning the bike by exhaust temperature.
Anyway, I would swap wires and go from there but do the compression check before anything else.
With low compression no amount of spark and gas will make it run.
(The attached pictures are small in your post but when clicked on will zoom in, click again to zoom out.)
Have you done a compression check?
1. All plugs out
2. Kill switch to kill, OFF
3. Wide open throttle
4. Fully charged strong battery so all 4 tests crank at the same speed.
Post the numbers for all 4.
I was going to suggest swapping the plug wires also.
This can be done at the coils. There is a screw on compression cap.
Once swapped if the problem moves then it's wires. If it does not move then it's fuel, compression, or valve timing related.
I had a flooding carb which cooled the exhaust just like your right side.
It turned out the one carb had a bad needle and seat. Once fixed the exhaust temp came right up.
I got to the point where I was tuning the bike by exhaust temperature.
Anyway, I would swap wires and go from there but do the compression check before anything else.
With low compression no amount of spark and gas will make it run.
(The attached pictures are small in your post but when clicked on will zoom in, click again to zoom out.)
slabghost
Well-known member
I haven't read through this entire post so I must ask. Have you set your valves? If the valves aren't right it can often seem like a carb problem. Try resetting the valves first then start the bike. If it still is cold on the right side turn off the fuel and run it. If it picks up then it's a fuel delivery problem.
well I am going to sitck mt 2 cents in here for what it is worth.....Maby it is only worth a penny but I have found on my dirt bikes that some have copper wires with a 5K resistor in the cap and some had carbon core hart measures 5K you cam measure them with an Ohm meter end to end... One coil feeda 1&2 the other. The coils are fed by the pulses from the pulse gen through the spark unit, so if there is a problem before the coil you could have the susptoms you have..Try to thet the input side of the coils as follows: Measure voltage drop at coil: Connect meter to coil primaryterminals, (+) to B/W, (-) to other terminal. Crank engineand measure voltage..Should bemote than 1 volt fluctuating.... also check the coil secondary circuit bydisconnecting thespark plug leads and measure the resistance through the cables and coil.. Should be 22K ohms +/- 5K ohms. If you have allready done these testa or proven that all pluga are firing good ,,,,then never mind :smilie_happy:
I think we can all confuse the hell out of you.
Dan seems to be giving concrete advice, eliminate possibilities one at a time.
To summarize as I understand it
- bike was running fine
- after sitting with petcock off starter jambed on a restart
- rocking the bike in gear allowed the motor to turn over and then start but now doesn't fire on cylinders 1&3
- occasionally firing 1 or 3 under throttle
- can smell gas while running
- compression is verified good
- replaced timing belts and still runs the same
COILS
- one coil fires 1 & 2, one coil fires 3 & 4. Unless someone switched the plug wires from 1 & 3 to the same coil it looks like coils aren't the problem. Switch plug wires as Dan suggests and you should be able to eliminate coils as the problem.
CARBS
- If it isn't the coils is sure looks like carbs. Considering how it's running I would have guessed a stuck float, but that doesn't explain why both 1 and 3 aren't firing as both carbs starting to flood at the same time seems unlikely. Is the carb linkage working properly??? Did someone stick a potatoe in your exhaust???
Jorg
Dan seems to be giving concrete advice, eliminate possibilities one at a time.
To summarize as I understand it
- bike was running fine
- after sitting with petcock off starter jambed on a restart
- rocking the bike in gear allowed the motor to turn over and then start but now doesn't fire on cylinders 1&3
- occasionally firing 1 or 3 under throttle
- can smell gas while running
- compression is verified good
- replaced timing belts and still runs the same
COILS
- one coil fires 1 & 2, one coil fires 3 & 4. Unless someone switched the plug wires from 1 & 3 to the same coil it looks like coils aren't the problem. Switch plug wires as Dan suggests and you should be able to eliminate coils as the problem.
CARBS
- If it isn't the coils is sure looks like carbs. Considering how it's running I would have guessed a stuck float, but that doesn't explain why both 1 and 3 aren't firing as both carbs starting to flood at the same time seems unlikely. Is the carb linkage working properly??? Did someone stick a potatoe in your exhaust???
Jorg
