Help diagnose by listening to my sick 1982 Goldwing GL1100

[dan filipi]

There is a special diode that prevents the neutral light from coming on when pulling in the clutch, that might have shorted out.

Can you explain again exactly what the problem is?

 

[CreatorsDream]

Each plug relies on it's companion to be grounded so when your checking for spark check them in pairs.

I'm confused. Why then did I get spark from one individual plug when I originally tested for spark? I only had one spark plug in and would turn the engine over to check for spark, then move the same plug to the next cylinder and try again. It seemed to work.

Should I now use two spark plugs in the same side and check for spark? Can I simply let the spark plug sit on top of the valve covers for ground so I can see the spark? Is there another way to measure the electrical. I do have a multi meter which can check resistance/continuity/voltage. I just don't really know what I'm reading on the meter.

 

[CreatorsDream]

There is a special diode that prevents the neutral light from coming on when pulling in the clutch, that might have shorted out.

Can you explain again exactly what the problem is?

The problem is that the neutral light now comes on every time I pull the clutch in regardless of which gear I am in. How this came about is confusing to me. I did fiddle with the clutch cable by setting it to have some play according to Honda service manual specs. Before I loosened the clutch cable, it was tight, no play in the lever. So I loosened the adjuster at the clutch. Here's a picture from the manual...

 

[CreatorsDream]

There is a special diode that prevents the neutral light from coming on when pulling in the clutch, that might have shorted out.

And where would this special diode be located?

 

[dan filipi]

First off, testing for spark on all 4 plugs:

Our bike uses a wasted spark design.
This means that 2 spark plugs work as a pair and get a spark at the same time.
Each of these 2 plug pairs (4,3 and 2,1) relies on the other to complete the circuit to produce a spark.

For this reason in order for plug 4 to spark, plug 3 must be plugged to the wire and the ground side (threads) must be touching ground.
The same is true for plug pair 2 and 1.

I suggest pulling all plugs, put the wires on them and lay them on the engine block so the threads are grounded.
Now crank it with the kill switch on and check for spark at all 4 plugs at the same time.
What to check next will depend on what you see.

The clutch making the neutral light come on:

The neutral light always has a +12 to it when the key is on.
The neutral switch provides the - ground to light the bulb as well as provide - ground to the starter relay.
The clutch lever supplies only - ground to the start relay.

Since the neutral switch and the lever switch provide ground to the start relay there has to be something inline to prevent the neutral going to the light when the lever is pulled, that is done by the diode.
A diode is a one way valve, it allows current flow only in one direction so.......
when pulling in the clutch, the - ground will not go to the light.

:heat:

 

[dan filipi]

There is a special diode that prevents the neutral light from coming on when pulling in the clutch, that might have shorted out.

And where would this special diode be located?

The diode is in the wire harness that runs along the frame to the left of the air filter.

You can unplug the diode and test it with your VOM.
You should get continuity on one direction but not the other by testing then swapping the test leads.

 

[dan filipi]

In the wiring diagram, look for Selenium Rectifier near the top right of the image right below the spark plugs.
That's what I'm calling a diode.
The flat line with the arrow pointing to it means that power flow is being stopped by it.
That's the one way valve action.

 

[CreatorsDream]

Dan, I REALLY appreciate your taking the time to advice me on my bike issues! Your description on checking for plug spark is perfect because I can understand it. As you can tell by now, I am no bike mechanic. So simple detailed explanations do help greatly. So thanks!

The neutral diode switch is confusing me. I hope it is obvious as to where on the left side of the air filter it is. I'm assuming left is as if I'm sitting on the bike facing forward. It would be great to see a picture of it, but I guess I'm asking for too much.

I have to be honest with my starter relay replacement. See, I bought one through ebay which said "Starter Solenoid GOLDWING GL1000 GL1100 GL1200 GL1500."

This doesn't look like the OEM version and I don't think Honda actually even makes the original relay any more, so I bought this one. I had a problem with installation to begin with. The four prong harness would only fit in one way, and when I plugged it in and went to reconnect the ground battery cable, I saw a spark which should not have occurred due to the ignition being turned off. This action blew out the 30 amp fuse!

So I ended up having to grind off the little plastic tab on the bike 4 prong wire plug to be able to seat the clip into place. After this everything seemed to work properly. Or so I thought.

Now it seems that this action may have blown my coil AND the neutral switch diode thing-a-majig... Maybe??? :swoon:

 

[dan filipi]

Hmm, could be what happened.
Sounds like reversed polarity which will in fact fry that diode.
The diode acted in a sense like a fuse. the reversed polarity would have been a dead short to ground blowing the "fuse".
The diode will also burn out if a +12 volts is applied to it at the starter relay and the bike is in neutral, a dead short.


I'll get a picture of the diode location and post it.

 

[dan filipi]

It's only about a 1/2" square.

 

[CreatorsDream]

Thank you for the great pictures Dan! I found some additional info on the from goldwingfacts.com and found that I may have not put everything back the way it should be when I removed and reinstalled the radiator. I think I forgot to plug something back in... "you may have a bad neutral swith... it is located in the cover where the water pump is housed, and is activated by the cam mechinism for shifting." I did remove the water pump housing to give me more room for replacing the timing belts. But I couldn't see anything to plug back in when I put the water pump housing back on. Weird, because I could have sworn that there was some wiring that was connected at the time I dismantled the radiator. It's just not obvious! Geez, looks like I am going to be taking the bike apart again!

BTW, here is a picture from goldwingfacts that says is the diode. Is that the correct one?

 

[dan filipi]

You didn't remove the water pump housing with the mechanical switch, that housing is the one with the oil and coolant drain plugs and is time consuming and messy to remove. You'd know it.

I don't think that arrow is pointing to the diode, it's hard to see what that is in that fuzzy picture but it looks like there are a bunch of wires coming out the bottom of it so I don't think so.

The pictures I posted IS the diode.

 

[WindNWing]

I suggest pulling all plugs, put the wires on them and lay them on the engine block so the threads are grounded.
Now crank it with the kill switch ON and check for spark at all 4 plugs at the same time.

Stated correctly but may appear confusing.
"ON" meaning the kill switch is in the center or run position. Maybe not confusing to others but when I think of the kill switch being on, it is switching it to kill the engine.
ahhhh.....I didn't notice there was a page 7 until I saw my post. :head bang: :head bang: I'm only one page late. :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy:

 

[dan filipi]

Yeah I forget the ON, RUN, PUT here for GO switch figuring everyone knows where it needs to be to get a spark.

 

[CreatorsDream]

Yeah I forget the ON, RUN, PUT here for GO switch figuring everyone knows where it needs to be to get a spark.

Not me... until I tried it with the switch to the kill side and nothing happened. So I switched it to run and I got spark ignition on all four cylinders. So what the heck! Maybe not enough arc? I guess you can tell I'm a real newbie to the GW.

I'm lost...

Oh, and you're right Dan about the neutral switch inside the water pump housing. I'm going to stumble through and see if I can check electrical ignition stuff using the Honda service manual. Wish me luck :read:

 

[CreatorsDream]

Oh, here's a question... Can the 82 GW 1100 run on two cylinders and sound okay driving at 3000 rpm? I would think it wouldn't run at all.

Oh, oh another question... Do the cylender intakes get warm/hot when running the engine for a couple of minutes? My left side (2 & 4) were warm to the touch, while the right side (1 & 3) have always been cold. Something is going with each side and I would like to diagnose for electrical before I go to the carb rebuild thing. Just think it's electrical because of how this whole problem started.

:thanks: for your patience and feedback!

 

[dan filipi]

Since your getting spark I see no problem there so time to move on.
Forget about the neutral light right now.

If you have everything else together and ready to start, start it up.

Tell us how it's running.

 

[CreatorsDream]

Tell us how it's running.

Better to let you listen so here's a clip with the audio recorded on my iPhone right after I synchronized the carbs and just before I took it for a test drive. Note that this recording does not show the bike under load or in motion. I added the visuals just for an effect... the audio is what counts. Are all four cylinders running here?
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrf7V33gGLg[/video]

I will try and record some actual video this weekend. Maybe show a cold start and then one after the engine is warmed up. I don't have any bike camera holders so I can't video while I drive. :ahem:

 

[dan filipi]

There's at least one cylinder that's not firing at all.

The simplest way I know to find which one is by using a spray bottle filled with water.
While it's running spray each exhaust header pipe right below the head. A straight stream works good.
You'll see a difference when the cylinder isn't firing.

 

[joedrum]

its looking like it the carbs but .....if you start it up from cold you can tell also buy touching the exhast which cylinders are firing good the exhast will heat up fast ..and weak ones will take longer to get hot or you can pull the plug wires off while running and see effect it has on the running .....the gas today is just exspensive crap and made to to screw up carb motors to get them off the road espescialy small carbs running a ATF mix in the gas replaces the heavy oils content that is totaly strip out of the gas now days ...the acohol is nothin but pure poison to to old wings the aft will this crap through the motor and keep the carbs clean ....it sounds like your in for getting the carbs clean ...once pluged up with todays crap for gas its iffy weather atf can clean them up .....but once you get them clean ATF will keep them spotless ......good luck ....ihave to say other than getting it running right its sounds to be a motor in good shape... :mrgreen: