My Oldwing let me down...

[sgq700]

Just for the heck of it.. pull the top off the carb and see if you have anything in the fuel bowl that could be floating around(i had a issue with that,now i run 2 filters,stock and at the carb inlet) and once in a while starving the fuel pick up? I still have the stock jetting in my carb and when i take off at 4am and roll too much into the carb, i get a lean back fire,but i know mine is lean! i leave it alone because it runs perfect in the heat of the day(100 plus here) and i run 160 miles a day at 70 to 80mph... i'm not gonna go fatter! Sure hope it is something simple and cheap!!

 

[skiri251-3]

Okay.
Removed the shelter and looked around.
I think I might have found the cause.

This ignition wire from stock harness which switches on the relay:

was border line loose.

I kept the stock mini-blade male connector so that I can go back to stock easily.
Maybe when it heated up the female connector metal expanded and loose connection became looser....

If this is the case, I let myself down. Not my Oldwing.

I replaced them with round bullet type connectors. Also I put relay bypass toggle switch.
This way if it is a faulty relay or kill/ignition switch, I can at least get home. Otherwise I will know what is the fault.

Now I need to buy that tilt sensor for fuel pump cut off.

Lastly, I noticed engine oil was below the lowest level. I filled it up around 3/4 of the bottom/top ranges before the trip.
My Oldwing burned quite a lot of oil in 411 miles ... partly because of those after fire bangs?
I guess I need to carry a quart of oil on longer rides from now on.

 

[Ansimp]

:good: I wouldn't wire in the toggle switch just make up a relay jumper wire using blade crimps. If you really want the switch ability I would make up the jumper with a toggle switch that allows you to cable tie it on for emergency use. In all honesty you can't beat a good quality relay circuit ( eliminate crimps and solder where possible). When I am rewiring half the time I spend more time pruning ( cutting out the redundant circuits) than actually wiring up!

 

[slabghost]

Some of these generic relays we use here are rated for 30 amps or more are not all that reliable. Some last while others fail rather quickly.

 

[skiri251]

Ansimp » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:52 pm[/url]":kg588x1m]
:good: I wouldn't wire in the toggle switch just make up a relay jumper wire using blade crimps. If you really want the switch ability I would make up the jumper with a toggle switch that allows you to cable tie it on for emergency use. In all honesty you can't beat a good quality relay circuit ( eliminate crimps and solder where possible). When I am rewiring half the time I spend more time pruning ( cutting out the redundant circuits) than actually wiring up!

Obviously the more connecters there are, the more points of possible failure but I don't want to remove the shelter in emergency. The toggle switch circuit is inserted into existing relay circuit with blade connectors.

Yeah, I guess I can eliminate those round can / bullet connectors and solder it because the other end is connected to the relay with blade connector.

 

[skiri251]

slabghost » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:17 pm[/url]":2gqpdq5f]
Some of these generic relays we use here are rated for 30 amps or more are not all that reliable. Some last while others fail rather quickly.

In that case, the semi-permanent bypass toggle switch will be useful.
I guess I should also carry a spare relay or two.

 

[skiri251]

Well I am still waiting for the bank/lean angle sensor but I put the shelter back on and tried going out for a test ride.

The engine wouldn't start (cold).
Looked at the spark. It was intermittent. Mostly no spark. Sometimes very weak irregular spark.
Switched to direct 12V from the battery to ignition.
Still the same.
Removed the shelter again and fiddled with wires.
Still the same.

Are there anything I should try before dropping the engine?

 

[slabghost]

Yes. Call Paul and have him help trouble shoot. It may be an issue with the c5.

 

[joedrum]

hmmmmmmm sheesh

 

[skiri251]

Called Paul but he didn't answer so I sent him an email.

 

[slabghost]

He's a busy guy but he'll get back to you I'm sure.

 

[dan filipi]

Go through all your connections related to the ignition.
Make sure you have good connections at the 3 pin plug that plugs into the coil.
Did you crimp and solder those pins before inserting them into the plug?

Your +12 power feed on the red......is that crimped and soldered?
Both the ignition and the coils get +12 volts on the red. That connection needs to be solid.

How about the 2 curve wires.
How are you grounding them?

Coil.....did the plug wires go in with a 'snap'?
That 'snap' tells you they are in all the way.

 

[Ansimp]

As I stated earlier check for crushing/ chaffing of the C5 control/trigger wires. Also double check your 12v relay/switch source as it doesn't change when you bypass the relay. I would do a high current test ( using a 55w or greater headlight bulb test light) and check the voltage drop especially if your coils are from the same source. Also check their earth circuits/ grounding.

 

[skiri251]

Talked to Paul.
He suggested basically the same as Dan.

Disconnected 3 wire connector from the coil and looked at 12V (red wire, center pin).

I inserted male blade and connected multimeter there. Solid 12V.
I think I crimped but not soldered them.

Here's how I connect the rest of the wires.

Green: no connection
Blue and Brown(?) : frame ground

 

[Ansimp]

I don't know if it is just me and the angle of the photo but it looks like the center crimp ( red wire) is not in the middle and if the corresponding crimp is bent down you may have a poor connection when you plug them together

 

[dan filipi]

Ansimp » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:51 pm[/url]":7ayw01bu]
I don't know if it is just me and the angle of the photo but it looks like the center crimp ( red wire) is not in the middle and if the corresponding crimp is bent down you may have a poor connection when you plug them together

It does look like the pins are not all the same height.

I'd pull those pins and solder, and check the cable all the way back to the ignition housing for chaffing like ansimp suggested.

 

[skiri251]

Wire routing from timing unit to the coil.

I don't see any crush or chaff.

Pins out of the connector:

Red is crimped + soldered.
Black and white crimped only.

Voltage drop with H4 halogen bulb.

w/o load: 13.25V
w/ load: 12.95V

 

[skiri251]

Soldered white and black, re-soldered red.

Well, it's close-up so focus depth is fairly shallow.

Three pins back in the connector. They all clicked in.

They move a little in the connector shell but I cannot do anything about it.
Also male pins (blades) on the coil side are fairly thick so I don't think they bend.
But obviously I cannot see how they went in.

As for the wires from the timing unit to the coil, first they go through those split bellows looking plastic tube up to the height of the battery.
Then from there it goes along the frame top tube (w/o bellows tube) to the coil.
Again I see no sign of crush/chaff.

So checked the voltage on red again. 13.25V
Hooked up everything but no joy. No spark or very faint one sometimes.

I guess I need to remove rear tire and swing-arm to open the timing unit cover...
Easier than dropping the engine, right?

 

[slabghost]

I got to mine on my 80 motor by removing the wheel and fuel tank. Tight but possible.

 

[skiri251]

slabghost » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:13 pm[/url]":3nfnidqx]
I got to mine on my 80 motor by removing the wheel and fuel tank. Tight but possible.

Fuel tank!?
I see frame cross member right after the cover. Maybe an inch space there. The tank is on top of cross member.
There is a thread for how to do it, I remember..