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I want to thank everyone for buying wire sets.
as it turns out it was a great experiance, and helped a few with there bikes.
at this time all 10 sets are sold.

Thanks again to everyone.
Jim
 
thats great jim i could have used a set or two but im up to my eyeballs in things going on and could not get any ....im glad this all worked out ..just gose to show you how good this forum realy is ....and the members make the forum.....
 
Jim thanks for getting them I'm glad it worked out OK. I put mine on Saturday the old wires and caps didn't look to bad but one of the wires by the coil was starting to get that green corrosion on it. I guess after 29 years it was time to replace them.
I took it for about a 150 mile ride yesterday and it felt real smooth but I replace the plugs and air filter at the same time.
 
I`ve been reading along here(I think I started something here as I suggested to somebody here a while back swaping out the 28 year old wires and caps.)and realized that I forgot to say/write that I use NON-Resistor plugs,cause,thats right,the caps have a built-in one with 5k ohm.So if you also run a resistor plug which also has 5k ohm.............10k ohm may be a little much.I doubt it`ll hurt anything but it IS not correct.I cant remember the number but its the same NGK number(same heat range and so on) just without the"R".
 
NGK DP8EA-9 .The resistor version is DPR8EA-9.If you want to run a resistor plug then use caps without resistors.I think all the exotic irridium and 4 -prong wonder-plugs are only avalable as resistor type,right?ALL my bikes run NGKs;a set of 4 cost less than ONE of some of those other plugs!And there just not worth it;they may work great on some new vehicle with a 10.000 volt crank-trigger electronic ignition system,but a 30 year old transistor system isnt going to support the full potential of the plugs;theres only so much voltage there,the plugs arent going to change that....
 
Hiya smokey,
we have been discussing this subject in other threads, so I took the couple extra minutes to dig out my old caps, and I found a couple things.
first when measured with a ohm meter I got 4.8K ohm roughly 5k ohm, the same as the new caps.
second when inspecting closely I noticed my old caps actually have the exact same model number on them(XD05F), but with a differnt manufacturer (Nichiwa)
one oither thing to note is these new caps have removable-replaceable resistors, and as much as I can see my old caps do also.
the parts manual shows the original caps as part# 30700-MB9-153 and description is "Cap assy. C, noise suppressor"

I didnt buy my bike new, and have no idea if the "old" caps I took off were original, I can tell you the wires were numbered for the cylinders.
but if the OEM caps were 5K AND the OEM plugs were 5K then Honda wanted us to have 10K overall resistance to the coils.

the owners manual calls for DPR8EA-9 which is a resistor plug.
this is based on a 83 GL1100

Guys this is fairly important stuff, if the coil gets too much or not enough resistance it could cause them to run hott and or crack, or not give off the correct amount of spark.
if my findings are wrong lets get this nailed down :good:
 
Found this on the Net.
its a good read if you can fallow it.

Code:
Resistor Plugs, Wires, and Related Issues


Most powersports vehicles (motorcycles, ATVs, personal watercraft, snowmobiles, scooters, and utility vehicles) come with resistor spark plugs, resistive spark plug wire, or resistor spark plug caps. Many have more than one of these things, and a few have all three. Just what are resistive ignition components for, and why do we need them?

The What and Why of Resistive Ignition Components
An ignition coil is a transformer. It has two electrical windings, that is, a primary winding and a secondary winding. The primary winding, depending on the system, is either turned on or off, and the resulting appearance or loss of magnetism induces voltage in the secondary winding. Because the windings vary considerably in size, this voltage is stepped up tremendously into the thousands of volts necessary to fire the spark plug. However, this high-voltage release is very messy (electronics techs call it electrically "noisy"), that is, it crackles and pops. The electrical noise presents two problems. First, it creates electrical emissions that coincide with radio transmission wavelengths. This radio frequency interference (RFI) intrudes on electronic communications to the point that it can cause Jay Leno to stand on his head on your neighbor’s TV! You can imagine the difficulty with emergency and law enforcement communications. The second problem, and one less known, is that an ignition system’s electrical noise also creates an electrical backlash in the ignition system that unchecked can interfere with the system’s integrity. RFI can also interfere with other electrical components on the vehicle, particularly the more sensitive solid-date electronics. Adding a carefully-chosen resistor to the ignition system’s secondary winding dampens the spark’s electrical noise, with little effect on plug voltage, since there is a surplus of unused voltage at the coil anyway. This damping is much like the muting of a tone on a guitar string with your finger on the string at the fret. The note is the same, the vibration and tone are different.

The Effect of RFI on Communications
However, not all vehicles use resistive ignition secondary components for the same reason. There are four different applications of resistive technology on powersports vehicles. To begin with, on virtually all machines, the aforementioned RFI suppression for the sake of preserving electronic communications is the goal. In other words, the resistor plugs, wires, or caps are there to control electrical emissions that would otherwise interfere with radio and TV reception.

The Effect of Electrical Backlash on Ignition Components
Second, on some offroad vehicles, resistive secondary components of a slightly different specification are present to reduce the electrical backlash that spark creates in the coil’s primary winding. This unwanted electrical feedback is harmful to the parts that drive the ignition system, particularly the ignition control modules (CDI boxes, igniters). Motocross bikes use resistive secondaries to protect the CDI boxes.

The Effect of RFI on Ignition Components
Third, also on offroad vehicles, resistive technology is used to reduce RFI-related malfunctions of ignition control modules that are close enough to the ignition coil to be subject to these strong, nearby radio waves. The CDI boxes or igniters on these machines are mounted close to the ignition coils, and therefore need RFI protection. Personal watercraft in particular, but also offroad motorcycles and ATVs, employ resistor technology to cope with this proximity RFI issue.

The Effect of Both Backlash and RFI on Onboard Microprocessors
Finally, any vehicle that has an onboard computer, no matter how basic, makes use of resistive ignition secondaries to ensure the protection of that computer and its many sensors from both RFI and electrical backfeed problems. Thus virtually all modern road bikes and every other powersports vehicle, whether or not it is fuel-injected, which has some form of computerized engine management system, therefore has resistors in its ignition system to protect these computers and related components.

Modern Vehicle Maintenance Issues
The outcome of all this is that one must be very careful when replacing spark plugs or servicing the secondary side of the ignition system on any of these vehicles. There are many late model personal watercraft and sport bikes for example that won’t even start if the plugs are not the right type, so sensitive are these systems to the issues already described. Other vehicles are not as sensitive, and will at least run, but will run poorly and/or do other odd things. These vehicles have resistor spark plug caps to protect their instrumentation as well. They will turn on their panel indicator lights, wiggle their gauges around, and do other strange things if connectivity to the resistors is faulty, or if non-resistor spark plugs are installed in them.

Older Vehicle Maintenance Issues
However, no road bikes made before 1979, and only a handful made before 1990, fit into more than the first of the four categories mentioned previously. That is, most vintage streetbikes have resistor plugs or caps only as a concession to the worldwide concern for the protection of radio communications. They do not have electronics onboard that are sensitive to either RFI or backfeed, and there are of course no computers to worry about. It is not unusual therefore for restorers and modifiers of these older machines to convert their ignition systems to non-resistor specification. The benefit of doing so is two-fold. First, there is obviously one less thing to go wrong. Ignition secondary resistors are usually carbon-based, and therefore deteriorate rather quickly. Eliminating the resistors in these systems simply eliminates them as a maintenance item. Second, removing the secondary resistance often increases potential ignition coil output, because it frees up more of the coil’s voltage reserve to be applied to the spark plug. The real-world gain is the ability to use a larger spark plug gap, with the attendant increase in combustion efficiency that is often realized as quicker starts, smoother idle, and better throttle response – most of the same things high output coils offer, but without their cost.

Resistive Ignitions on Automotive vs. Powersports Systems
But, beware of thinking automotive when servicing or modifying one of these older bikes. Cars and motorcycles are thought by many people to be very similar in technology, but in many ways they are not. The two industries have traditionally taken very different approaches to many areas of design and manufacture, and spark suppression is just one example. We have already examined the fact that motorcycle manufacturers (Harley excepted, as with other things) put the resistors on the ends of the spark plug wires. That is, inside the plug caps. They have also always used plain stranded metal wire (stainless steel in Asian motorcycles). That is, good old-fashioned electrically conductive stuff. Car makers on the other hand add the resistor, not in the plug cap, but in the wire, by making the wire itself resistive, i.e. "suppressive." (Sounds like a dictatorial regime, doesn't it?) The wire is not really wire at all, but a mixture of carbon and fibreglas. It is therefore very resistive. Unfortunately, it is also, due to the materials from which it is made, very subject to deterioration and very difficult to make good electrical connections with. This is why the car world replaces spark plug wires very frequently.

Aftermarket Spark Plug Wires
But you don’t ever need to replace the spark plug wires on Asian bikes, unless they are broken or badly corroded. (Harleys and the odd Euro bike are excepted because, like cars, they have resistive wires, not caps.) You should however unscrew the spark plug caps occasionally and do two things. First, resistance-test the caps. Pre-1990 systems should generally ohm under 5k while a few of the later ones will be 15k. Check the manual. Second, occasionally trim a little of the spark plug wire off the end so that the cap has fresh surface to bite on when reinstalled. If you do replace the wires due to their being too short or because of breakage, be careful. It has become very difficult in recent years to find good spark plug wire. Most of the wire sets sold for bikes are simply repackaged auto wire kits, containing automotive type suppressive wire. The stuff is junk, no matter how nicely colored, because it is made of non-wire material. You also don’t need to add any more resistance to the system. So keep that stuff away from your bike. Ask your local motorcycle shop to order it, not from automotive companies, but from Parts Unlimited and a few other suppliers. You can also go to a good old fashioned auto parts store and ask for Delco brand Packard 440 spark plug wire, which is 7mm, copper wire used on cars in the 1950s. It comes on a 100 ft. roll, part number 1851208. Either of these is very close to what the Asian manufacturers used stock. You then attach old-fashioned non-resistor automotive terminals and covers, and you’re done.

Kettering System Spark Plug Wires
The really old (pre-1979) points (Kettering) ignition systems had unique ignition coils. The coils on these bikes often have the wires molded in place. That is, the wire is not conventionally removable. It is possible, if necessary, to repair a bad wire on one of these old style coils by removing and replacing the wire, but it is a tricky operation. The wire must be extracted with a pick and the new one epoxied in because now the hole is enlarged. There are also spark plug wire splice kits available, but they make a really poor repair that will likely corrode, get loose, and leak voltage. It’s best to replace either the wire or the coil. One of the best replacement coils for old Hondas is the pair from a 1975 through 1979 Gold Wing. With longish wires that can be trimmed to size and higher than average potential voltage output, these easy-to-mount coils are plentiful on the used market and a very good choice. You might also consider buying a used coil of undetermined quality just for the spark plug wires, as whatever condition the coil is in, the wires have to be good if not broken.

To summarize, there is more than one reason powersports vehicles have secondary resistance in their ignition systems. Most all address communications concerns, but many also protect themselves with their resistor plugs, wires, or caps. You must be careful when servicing newer systems because of their sensitivity to RFI and related problems. However, older ignition systems are not subject to these problems, so there are fewer maintenance concerns and a wider choice of options, including modifications to improve serviceability and performance. Finally, the common misconception that bike spark plug wires are like car wires that need to be replaced often has led to unnecessary and unfortunate replacement expense, as well as the application of car-specific resistive wire that has no business being on a motorcycle.
 
I went to the NGK site and the cap they recommend is XB05FP (the P designates a special water proof cover) the 5 indicates 5 ohms, the plug for my bike is DR8ES-L which is a resistor plug also. So NGK say the replacements should both have resistors.
This is for a 1981, so I feel these are the right caps.
Here is a link https://www.ngk.com/results_appOther.asp ... 248&mfid=1
 
I took the resistor out of my caps because I'm running resistor type Irridiums.

Got me wondering now if I should put them back in.
I'll read what jd posted later and see if I come up with any conclusions.

This whole coil ohmage ballast resistor business is giving me a headache. We need to nail this down once and for all.
 
really got me wondering.

anybody else have there old caps layin around? can you confirm the resistance value I got?
or does your caps have the numbers on them?

it was explained to me today by a auto mechanic friend of mine, that the resistance actually makes the spark hotter, and last longer.
 
The caps are right.


That article explained in the older systems it would be better to remove the resistor and run non resistor plugs for the hottest spark.
So now we have another persons opinion. We need facts!
 
I've always heard and believed that resistors were in place to protect ignition components from backlash. Here's some more information to further muddy the waters...


A bit about resistance.

From: Rainier Lamers <[email protected]>

Subject: Was: Spark plug safety tip

Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 16:35:56 +0200

Recently an interesting thread on this newsgroup discussed the relative merits of resistive plugs as used on many Rotax engines.

In order to get to the bottom of this Spark plug vs. resistance story I decided to do some experiments. I am a electronics engineer (when I am not flying :), so I have the tools for the job.

First a coil was rigged for the job to create the high voltage required for the plugs. I used a standard car coil combined with an electronic interrupter/generator. Spark plugs with and without resistors as well as caps with and without resistors where obtained. The plugs where all equally gapped to 0.4mm. I used a scope to monitor the voltage at the plug tip as well as at the coil (via high impedance probe - scopes are expensive !). The result was quite interesting.

As expected, the voltage at the cable (before any resistor) rises at the same rate regardless of resistance until the point of firing. Thereafter however the picture changes.

The coil generates a certain amount of energy. This energy wants to go somewhere. At a voltage of about 7KV the plug fires (irrespective of resistance). Until that happens NO CURRENT FLOWS. Whether you have resistance or not does not matter. A paltry 5KOhms does not do anything when compared to the nearly infinite resistance of the gap itself (until the plug fires that is).

Once the plug fires the resistance comes into being. The coil cannot get rid of its energy in the shortest possible time due to the resistance.

This reduces current flow in the spark and it takes quite a bit longer until the energy in the coil has expelled itself via resistor and spark gap. This results in a longer spark. However the spark is weaker due to energy loss in the resistor.

The scope shows this very nicely and it also gives reason why the resistor helps to suppress RF. With the resistor changes in the rate of current flow are much less resulting in "flatter" edges on the voltage vs. time curve that the scope shows you. This implies less high frequency components of the signal in the cable feeding the spark plugs.

Conclusion: It is quite safe to insert a resistor. It will not stop the plug from firing at all. High values will however lead to a weaker spark -but it is going to spark, no matter what.

However, contaminate the plug with fuel (even just a little) and a high value resistor will cause the plug not to fire. 10K plugs as are used on some motorcycles now are about maximum I would guess.

I do not recommend you use resistance plugs or caps at all on inverted Rotax installations due to the possibility of plug contamination by oil and fuel.

As further experiment I increased the resistance value to see what effect this is going to have. I tried values 10K, 47K, 100K, 220K, 470K, 820K and 1M.

Even with 1M the plug (dry, not contaminated) still fired but noticeably weaker and longer (you can actually see it firing longer !). But contaminate this plug even slightly (a little moisture by exhaling onto it) and you get no spark.

Finally, a disclaimer: All of the above has been found out by a little experimenting. Use the results at your own peril. Don't get back to be with a heap of bent metal that used to be your plane claiming it is because I said you should put 1M resistors into your spark plug leads. I did NOT.

Rainier Lamers.
 
Good article.

So on one hand running without resistors develops a hotter shorter (time) spark.
Running a resistor weakens the spark but makes the spark longer.
A longer spark to me means more complete combustion (or maybe not ?) but can foul easier.

Hmmm, which is better.

Seems to me a hotter spark is better since it is less prone to fouling meaning the plug stays cleaner which should translate into a cleaner burn.
 
Lots of good info in the two articles.In the first,the section on "Older Bikes" hits it on the nail for me;Without resistors voltage at the plug can increase for a hotter spark/cleaner plug and you have one less thing that can break/wear out.Again I forgot to mention something very important;I live in Germany(no I`m not German,I`m from Mississippi) where there are DIFFERENT resistor requirments as far as radio suppresion goes!Thats something to keep in mind here,and the fact that my bike is a Germany only DX model and my be different from U.S.models.I didn`t buy this thing new so I don`t know what it came with but when I bought it it had resistor caps AND plugs.I use non suppresion wires, resistor caps and non-resistor plugs and couldent be happier with it.Runs much better and smoother than before,the plugs run nice and clean whereas before there where deposits on the insulators,and it starts easier.
 
My 2 cents worth-

Honda says the caps should have the resistors and they should measure 5 kohms- the stock plugs are non resistor plugs. It is true that the main reason for the resistor plugs is noise reduction- if you are listening to a car radio and you rev an engine with no resistors that is designed for resistors you MAY hear a whine from the your speakers that increases in pitch as the engine revs higher- maybe not- maybe so- but if the stock setup uses resistors I would too if I was using the stock ignition- they may also afffect the electronic spark advance Honda started using on the '80 year model. Pre- 80 with points ignition- I would go by the Honda manual recomendations-

Honda may have added the resistors for the '80 model year because that was the first year you could get a factory Wing with a radio- again- I would go by what the manual says.
 
I'm thinking I will remove the resistors in the caps.
this is all good info, and I'm thinking 5k should be fine for radio suppression, and backlash.
but since I do have onboard radio e will see how the "noise" goes.
amybe the answer would be he 1k resistor caps with non-resistor plugs?
anyway I'll write back my findings.
 
I was going over my Honda manual last night (my wife thinks I have strange taste in reading-in-bed books) and this is from the 80-81 Honda manual-

The '80 uses non-resistor plugs but the caps should measure 5k. The '81 uses resistor plugs and the caps should also measure 5k. And the '81 resistor plugs are 'optional' for use on the '80- but the '80 non-resistor plugs shouldn't be used on the '81's..... I think the coils and all the other ignition stuff is identical on both years- so what we need to do is go over to Japan- find the guy who wrote the manual and put bamboo shoots up under his fingernails until he reveals the real TRUTH!!!!!
 
I removed the resistors in the caps, replaced them with small solid copper rods.
as far as ignition I didnt change anything else.
now heres what I had before the change..
at 2000 RPM in 4th gear a quick twist of the throttle to WOT would cause the bike to stumble and miss a bit, even though it would eventually get up above 3000 and straighten out.

now after the change
same situation .. 4th gear 2000 RPM , quick twist to WOT.
an even pull, no miss, and much faster rpm gain to over 3000.

on my bike, above 3000 didnt seem any differnt. and I didnt see any large gain in MPG.

noteable change in lower RPM range. no increased idle speed. didnt seem smoother any other way except under a load.
strangely. it seems to start harder.
after the change I put on around 100 miles last night. and every stop it seem to start much harder more cranking than befor the resistors removed. I dont really understand that, since it should have hotter spark it should start quicker.
but befor thye change I only had to bump the starter( even when cold) and the bike would fire right up.
theres one thing I have never been inside on this bike. the ignition pickup.
I could have sticky machanical advance, or even a bad vacume advance.
the longer spark time could have been masking a timing issue. I plan to look into this.
also I noticed a slight valve noise last night after warming up, so I plan a valve check/adjustment, and carb resynch.
and hopefully I'll have the time to give the ignition a once over.


I'm currently running DPR8EA-9 plugs so absolutely stock except no cap resistors. for an 83'
 

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