Spark Question

[TheRepoGuy]

I’m going back to the spark problem. Just tried to crank her over on starting fluid; only got fire out of the number 4. Pulled the plugs and checked for spark...No Nada! The spark on number 4 was super weak and didn’t have any nuts to it. Looked dull as all get up too, wasn’t bright blue but rather orange.

So - I’m gonna shoot from the hip and say even if these coils are within spec which I had one hell of a shit multimeter to check them with they probably are jacked. Going to replace them with GL1500 coils since they’re cheaper and more readily available...that being said; looking at the ignition system would there be something else other than the pulse generators which would cause the old girl to only have spark on one cylinder other than the coils being fried that I HAVENT checked?
Nate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pidjones]

If 4 had spark, 3 should have it too. Have you checked your plug wire and cap resistance? Caps should be 5k ohm and wires should be very, very low. If you replaced the plug wires with resistor core, go back and do it with solid core (but keep the resistor caps. Also, the plugs should be non-resistor.

 

[dan filipi]

It's surprising how little spark is actually needed with compression and a fuel mixture.

 

[TheRepoGuy]

If 4 had spark, 3 should have it too. Have you checked your plug wire and cap resistance? Caps should be 5k ohm and wires should be very, very low. If you replaced the plug wires with resistor core, go back and do it with solid core (but keep the resistor caps. Also, the plugs should be non-resistor.

I went back to the stock coils and bought new NGK plug boots I’m assuming with the resistors in them for all four with new plugs. Makes me wonder if the plug wires are just bad or not but I think I’m going to buy brand new coils and get it over with to see if that solves the issue or I’m going to go with a brand new Neon coil and new wires again [emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[desertrefugee]

The wires are pretty durable, but if you replaced the caps, you should have trimmed the wire ends back in inch or so to get into "virgin" conductor. That is important - otherwise, the caps won't have any meat to connect to.

 

[mcgovern61]

And the video showing the old girl spinning over!

https://youtu.be/IJfZm8EolWQ

Spark may not be the issue. Easy test....listen to your engine spin in this video with the plugs in. Pull all 4 plugs and spin it again. If it sounds the same, there is a very good chance there is no compression. The only time my engine ever spun that fast was when I have the plugs out.

I think before you chase your tail on spark, find out if you have any compression. All the spark in the world will not let an engine without compression to start.

 

[desertrefugee]

Whoa. I hadn't seen that. Looks like plugs are in. That doesn't sound right. Several of us have recommended a compression check. Doesn't even have to be "proper". Even a finger over a plug hole would tell you something. That motor sounds off. Have you verified crank and cam timing marks? Are valves visibly operating in a normal fashion? I think you should verify before doing anything else - or as Gerry was poking at, you might be chasing the squirrel up the wrong tree...

 

[joedrum]

That thing has no compression at all and will never start Nate ...never ...I’ve been working on these wings a long time ..something big here is wrong ...could be simple or could be worse ..but it’s never going to start like this ..period

 

[TheRepoGuy]

That thing has no compression at all and will never start Nate ...never ...I’ve been working on these wings a long time ..something big here is wrong ...could be simple or could be worse ..but it’s never going to start like this ..period

That’s kind of where I’m at as well - Gauge coming tomorrow so we shall see what pops for compression
Nate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GTC@MSAC]

TheRepoGuy » 12 Jul 2019, 19:01[/url]":2x81dbyi]

That thing has no compression at all and will never start Nate ...never ...I’ve been working on these wings a long time ..something big here is wrong ...could be simple or could be worse ..but it’s never going to start like this ..period

That’s kind of where I’m at as well - Gauge coming tomorrow so we shall see what pops for compression
Nate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Found your latest post and watched the video. I can't imagine ALL the cylinders have bent valves, but it definitely has no cranking resistance whatsoever. I have to agree with Joe, that motor sounds like it has no compression. Can you post pics of your cam timing setup?

 

[TheRepoGuy]

TheRepoGuy » 12 Jul 2019, 19:01[/url]":3med8ub2]

That thing has no compression at all and will never start Nate ...never ...I’ve been working on these wings a long time ..something big here is wrong ...could be simple or could be worse ..but it’s never going to start like this ..period

That’s kind of where I’m at as well - Gauge coming tomorrow so we shall see what pops for compression
Nate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Found your latest post and watched the video. I can't imagine ALL the cylinders have bent valves, but it definitely has no cranking resistance whatsoever. I have to agree with Joe, that motor sounds like it has no compression. Can you post pics of your cam timing setup?

I’ll do that here in a couple. I know I had the crank lined up at the T1 mark and the pulleys lined up on the timing marks but who knows...
Nate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TheRepoGuy]

I’m going to bite back on this one for a second. I went ahead and got a brand new coilpack and some spark plug wire. It was advised above to go ahead and trim them back about an inch, good with that idea but is it cut the whole wire or just the plastic sheath?

This Neon coil setup seems to be the best option I’ve got at the moment since my local Honda shop doesn’t stock the coils even for an 1100 or a 1500...

I’ve got the crimping ends, 90 degree boots, dielectric grease and all that so that should be alright, my caps on the plugs show good resistance so I’m not stressed about that either. At least with the correct wiring which I already dealt with before I KNOW she will spark over.

Compression test will happen today though I’m in agreement with everyone else here there’s no compression in the motor; so I’ll do another thread again with timing mark pictures and everything else. Pretty sure I had everything correct when I went over this the first time but never hurts to double check it again.

Lemme pose a timing question because I don’t want to mess it up in the event I was right before which again I think I was. I have a video I did of it before I put everything back together and had some assistance from a couple friends so that I’ll post for amusement ha!

Anyway - the T1 mark was lined up where the service manual said, I had a friend of mine hold a 17mm socket on the stator and I lined up the timing marks on the pulleys as they should have been. Y’all can watch the video and see but that’s how I was told to “time” this thing so unless I’m wrong, I think I did that right.

See for yourself - again the only thing changed now is the T1 is still lined up (though not anymore since I cranked it over but I can fix that easy) and neither are the timing marks on the pulleys up front.

https://youtu.be/q89VQB0Oj2w



Nate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dan filipi]

For sure the right cam timing mark is not lined up.

Post a new video with the T1 lined up with the cam marks as they sit now with the belts on. Belt covers off of course.

 

[TheRepoGuy]

For sure the right cam timing mark is not lined up.

Post a new video with the T1 lined up with the cam marks as they sit now with the belts on. Belt covers off of course.

I’ll get on it - Amazon is only 3 houses away so in theory if I can get the mark lined up right and get the cam gears set then I can do compression while I’m at it
Nate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dan filipi]

TheRepoGuy » Today, 11:39 am[/url]":14kjcwbz]

For sure the right cam timing mark is not lined up.

Post a new video with the T1 lined up with the cam marks as they sit now with the belts on. Belt covers off of course.

I’ll get on it - Amazon is only 3 houses away so in theory if I can get the mark lined up right and get the cam gears set then I can do compression while I’m at it
Nate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh, I thought it was all together right now since you’ve been trying to start it.

 

[joedrum]

Ok Nate ....you need to put belts on ..and get it timed right ...then compression check ...put tape on the intake ports till you get belts on and timed right ...T1 ...both belts on and on timing marks and idlers tensioned on belts..then take pics or video so we can see it timed right ..not really easy when you havnt done it much ....then time to check compression and see what we have ...don’t worry about spark or carbs yet ...is the way I’d go seeing the motor in video..

 

[TheRepoGuy]

Setting the timing here in a second. Lemme drop this with you folks and see what you think.

My coilpack is actually numbered! The way these are wired to fit the bikes makes sense with the center pole in the switch being black with the white Tracer then the far right on the plug was the yellow blue trace and the left was blue with the yellow trace.

If I understand the mod correctly; looking at the CP, 1 and 4 fire together and 2 and 3 fire together correct?
Nate

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TheRepoGuy]

Nevermind - has a dumbass brain fart for a second ha! [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ekvh]

Did this bike run before? Has it had head work?

The 1200 needs to spin over quite a while to build enough oil pressure in the hydraulic adjusters before it will develop compression. Sounds just like your video. I’m not sure if the adjusters lose pressure from just sitting.

When I first tried it after head gaskets, I was so bummed out, thought I had screwed something up. I had pumped up the adjusters per the manual, but it still took a long time to suddenly come to life. With the cranking you have done so far, you might be pretty close to firing now.

 

[TheRepoGuy]

Did this bike run before? Has it had head work?

Bike was not running and had sat for at least 3 years that I know about, chances are it was longer than that

The 1200 needs to spin over quite a while to build enough oil pressure in the hydraulic adjusters before it will develop compression. Sounds just like your video. I’m not sure if the adjusters lose pressure from just sitting.

When I first tried it after head gaskets, I was so bummed out, thought I had screwed something up. I had pumped up the adjusters per the manual, but it still took a long time to suddenly come to life. With the cranking you have done so far, you might be pretty close to firing now.

Exhaust valves are cooked on the bottom side of both heads. Gonna pull them off here in a bit and see what it looks like underneath and go from there
Nate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk