Still having trouble with #1 plug fouling

[dan filipi]

I'd have have to study the passages again because I wonder if the air cutoff was leaking if it would run rich.
Take a look at Roadys carb overhaul thread. He has the passages pointed out like none other I know.
It doesn't seem like it would run rich enough to foul a plug but it's easy enough to check it on number 1 carb, it's under those 2 phillips screws on the side. When I first got my 1100 3 of them you could see thru and one was missing all together.

That's a great offer by Jim! Maybe we can work out a tool loaning program?

 

[kirkwilson]

Back at you, Joedrum-

Did it-pulled the plugs, turned it over with the rotor bolt to T1- The 2 intakes that were closed-(I think it was 1 &4) I put enough Seafoam in to just cover the valve- After an hour all the Seafoam was still there- we'll see in the morning.

Thanks again to all!

 

[mcgovern61]

When I set my floats, afterwards I put the carbs on the floor with the gas tank full and connected the gas line from the petcock to the carbs and opened the petcock. In no time at all, #1 and #3 leaked into the plenum proving that they were not actually sealing when the floats came up. I opened them up again and pulled all of the float needles one by one and cleaned them with a toothbrush and some gas and reset the floats again. Reset up on the floor and opened the petcock. Sat overnight and no leaks, however, when I lifted them to 45 degrees to similate the bike leaning, #1 leaked agin! Openeed them up again and one more cleaning and float check. Finally, they sealed and stopped leaking.

When my CV slides were out, I cleaned them by crumbling some tinfoil and polishing them with a little lemon oil. Worked great! The still looked scuffed, but were smooth as silk. Like Dan said, they should easily spring back up to the top with no effort.

Gerry

 

[kirkwilson]

I was looking at the float needles- as I was looking at everything- and they didn't look exactly perfectly like pointy ice cream cones- [;>},..... At this point I'm wondering if I should buy all this stuff and just throw it all in- I don't care anymore-I just want it to work.....

 

[joedrum]

this is always a hard deal these carbs when right run great .....the kits are way over priced for what you get and the hardware is cheaper made ... :Awe: so this is where everybody gets so put off on the carbs id realy try to make cleaning work first .....but realy go the extra mile on the cleaning :builder: :heat: :builder: :heat: :mrgreen:

 

[dan filipi]

Kirk, your better off keeping these needles and seats if they're Honda. I question the quality of any other.

Try this,
Hook up about a foot long gas line to the rack.
With the carbs upside down and bowls off, blow into the gas line with as much force as you can with your mouth and see if any leak. Then you can lift each float one by one and take a measurement when it opens and closes to compare them all.

 

[kirkwilson]

Way ahead of you, Dan- (this time, anyway)- I have a large capacity hand pump for inflating road bicycle tires to 115 psi or so- I made an adapter hose, clamped it to the carb fuel inlet hose, pulled the handle of the tire pump up, and hung about a half gallon of Mobile one off the handle with a bungee to give the pump some pressure. All the float needles stayed sealed until I lifted the floats with my finger ( carbs upside down with bowls off). They didn't open at the 15.5mm level the manual says to set them at- it was more like 19 or 20 mm at the non-pivot end- but they were all set at 15.5 per the manual and they all started passing gas {;>}(air) at about the same point.

Everything in the carbs is spotless- I'm going to put them back in and go for it....

 

[dan filipi]

Ya, I think if they are all opening and closing at the same level I'd stick em in too.

 

[kirkwilson]

Carbs are back together, back on the bike, throttle cables connected and working- I gotta tell you- getting those throttle cables back on was a real monkey dance- enough for today - I'll get the rest together tomorrow- Hopefully it'll be better than before- you never know- sometimes somethings I take apart run again eventually-

 

[dan filipi]

let us know, you got me curiosity.

 

[joedrum]

well the time is here ....ithink it going to be better....good job kirk....

 

[kirkwilson]

Got up this morning, did my final checks, tires, fluids, etc- She fired right up- Off we went- Man, did that bike run sweet! Roll on the throttle and she wanted to move! Found a hill at least 30% grade and the same thing- rolled the throttle and she ate that hill like my dog hits a plate of canned food! I understand now why you all love your 'Wings so much. About 20 miles of the happiest ride in a long time- Then, the missing started, headed for home, put her in the garage, sat there with my head in my hands until she cooled off some ( not really, I went and had a couple of cold adult beverages), and pulled the plugs- #1 black as my heart when I think about my ex's old man, and 2,3, and 4 clean as my dogs plate after he's done with that chow. So after all that back to square one. Not giving up, though- whatever it takes!!!!!

 

[dan filipi]

Damn, I thought we had it there!

With so many things going on I'm not sure what you tried.
In a earlier post I think you swapped wires and coils but the problem stayed on #1?

It has to be either gas or oil fouling the plug since it gets black.
Could be caused by:

Over rich
Weak spark
Burning oil, bad oil ring
Low compression

I'd first check the compression on all 4.
I consider any less than 140 is a problem.

If it's over rich the plug tip should be wet.
Try a fresh plug, run it for 5 minutes, pull it quick and see if it's wet with gas. Gas dries fast so if it looks wet that could also be oil.
Oil fouled you should be getting smoke out the exhaust.

Keep at it, we'll get it.

 

[kirkwilson]

Thanks, Dan- for the advise- I really appreciate it.

No smoke from the exhaust. Not on startup- not during warmup- not at all. Which is why I haven't thought about a stuck/ broken ring, etc- but you're right- it's too rich either from gas or oil.

Yes, I swapped the plug wires left side to right before I tore it apart and #1 still fouled- did the same thing today again- problem stayed with the cylinder not the wire/cap.

Tomorrow I'll do the compression test- I'm betting it's good and the problem is the carb. If it was the rings I'd be seeing smoke from the exhaust- Also, I'm not using oil- If I was burning enough oil to foul the plug within 25 miles I should see oil consumption and smoke - Don't think I've got a blown head gasket coolant is clean- oil is clean- engine actually runs a little cool- I watch the gauge and I can tell when the thermostat opens- the temp goes up and down a bit but averages a little below the middle of the gauge- so I keep coming back to that one carb.

If she passes the compression test I'm pulling the carbs again and throwing them just as far as I can out in the middle of the little lake down the street and then trying to find another set somewhere-

 

[OldWrench]

I have a couple of ideas. If oil was causing the fouling in that short a distance it would be smoking pretty bad. I’m going to make a guess that it is a fuel problem.

I would start the bike up, let it run until it is warm and sitting on the center stand. I would then drain each carburetor into a container and measure the amount of fuel that comes out of each carb. Most likely you are going to get more fuel out of #1 than the other three. Assuming that your floats are adjusted properly I would then suspect that the needle valve is not seating properly and allowing fuel to continue to enter after the float should have shut it off. If you should find that #1 does have more fuel in it than the other three carbs I would buy a kit for it and replace the needle valve and seat or basically rebuild the carb.

One thing about needle valves, it doesn’t take much at all for them not to seat properly. Sometimes you can look at them and they look perfectly good but then look at them under a strong magnifying glass and they look like the grand canyon. I’m going way back to my days of rebuilding carburetors on cars, funny thing is today we have young technicians that have never worked on a carburetor because everything is fuel injection.

I seriously doubt that it is a weak spark but it is possible. You could swap the coils and that will tell you real quick if you have a weak spark or not.

On my 83 the carbs were a real mess. I rebuilt them and set them up on the bench as has been stated. However mine took a lot of fooling with to get them synced right. However once they were done she purrs like a kitten and roars when needs to.

Good luck hope this helps a little.

 

[dan filipi]

If she passes the compression test I'm pulling the carbs again and throwing them just as far as I can out in the middle of the little lake down the street and then trying to find another set somewhere-

Throw them toward me and I'll catch. I need a #2 carb :grin:

 

[kirkwilson]

What's wrong with you're #2?

And now I see your plan- you steer me in the wrong direction with my #1 just so you can get your hands on my #2- you are despicable!!!!

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean Dan's not out to get you!!!!!!!!!~

 

[dan filipi]

LOL!

My number 2 carb was plugged up so bad I had to drill the side to clear it and I think the non Honda float needle and seat is flakey. I think there still may be a clogged passage, not sure but it needs to come off either way because I've had hydrolock a couple times from the seat leaking.
I have a complete set I plan to rebuild, waiting on $

 

[mcgovern61]

I have a complete set I plan to rebuild, waiting on $

Boy I know that feeling! :grin:

 

[OldWrench]

Isn't it the pits that money dictates how many toys we can have. Should have been born rich.