T-belt...Cam timing theory?

[joedrum]

ron i see you have bought out the heavy tools of the trade on this and im just stumped over this ....i know you must be be fustrated :head bang: :sensored: :head bang: :head bang: :beer:

at this point id would be ready to take the rockers off the the no2 clylinder and take the plug out and start it up and see if it still makes the noise and if it did id check all the other cylinders too ......its got to be in the valve trane some where to me with all the things that have happen but you never know ....ive never done this but it seems like it would work and not cause any problems .....ron i feel for you

its realy hard to beleave that this wing is not figured out yet ...it reminds me of sidecar suise overheating problem that ended up a micro crack in the head in a small passage .....

like i said ive never done this but it seems to me if the rockers are off and the springs are on and the plug is out i cant see that this would hurt anything and it sure would eliminate the noise if it was coming from no2 valves .....i just cant get by the fact that you caught that valve out of adjustment so bad during this proccess that keeps me thinking its there ......good luck ron on your next move on this ......

 

[scdmarx]

Since the motor will be cold, I'll run through the valve adjustment again before I do that, Joe.

Since I changed the oil and filter, I'm wondering if the PO had some additive in it to quiet it down just to sell it. I don't believe in cures in a can, and can't think of anything that would work this well, then stop working as soon as it was drained and replaced with regular oil. I'm just pulling ideas out of the sky right now. I'm lost on this. I wish I had one of those two hundred thousand dollar high speed cameras and a way to put it inside the motor to see things while it's running.

I do notice the cam pully has a slight wobble to it when the motor is running. It has a good tight fit - it's not loose, but like something was pryed on at one time. I don't know how critical that is, or if it might have something to do with it, if at all? It's very slight and the motor has to be idleing to see it. Not enough to see when turning by hand. The worst I would expect from it is that the belt on that side won't go a hundred thousand miles. But, I suppose if it could tell stories, it could possibly be tied to this problem?????

I have to leave town today and won't be back untill tomorrow night, so I won't be mess'n with it for a couple days. Thanks for the idea. I think I'll start with one thing at a time, first pull the plug wire and start it, if the noise is still there, then dig in and pull the rockers and try that.

 

[scdmarx]

BTW, I don't have any way to test the springs, but they all look good and all look the same. Although, I haven't had them all off at the same time to match them up with each other.

 

[joedrum]

hmm we havent talk much about that ....but idont see that happening at mostly ideling after valve adjustment but lugic is just not scoring to many points right now so who knows......

 

[dan filipi]

Additive to the oil by the PO, Seriously doubt it.

Joe's idea is good. Need to narrow down where the problem lies.

Did you post an audio clip?
Never mind I found it.

That sounds just like a severely loose tappet adjuster.

 

[scdmarx]

Additive to the oil by the PO, Seriously doubt it.

I know, huh.

Joe's idea is good. Need to narrow down where the problem lies.

And that's my problem. :headscratch:

Did you post an audio clip?

Just this one.

 

[scdmarx]

I just had a thought: I don't remember now, but what if one of the valves had been intentionally adjusted a little tight, (to mask a problem?) and I came along and screwed things up by adjusting to spec? Hmmmm, the exhaust valve is the one that had the burrs on it like someone had to grip it with an iron claw at one time. What if I try to cinch that one up a thousands or two at a time and see what happens?
I know a tight valve will bring with it issues like not idleing as smooth as it should, which I didn't think it did anyways before I started, and eventually lead to heat transfer issues, ie burned valve, etc.

Then that would still leave the question: What's REALLY wrong with it?

 

[dan filipi]

I can't think of any good tightening the valve would do. It would just cause the valve to stay open and burn it.

I'm leaning more toward something didn't go right in the valve adjustment.
Doing the adjustment, did you follow Roady's tutorial?
At what point did you find the loose tappet?

 

[scdmarx]

I can't think of any good tightening the valve would do. It would just cause the valve to stay open and burn it.

I'm leaning more toward something didn't go right in the valve adjustment.
Doing the adjustment, did you follow Roady's tutorial?
At what point did you find the loose tappet?

No I didn't. But I'll look it over for sure before I touch it again. I used the proceedure in the manual. I have seen misprints in manuals before....(?)
I agree it sound just like a loose valve adjustment. And that's kinda the way I've been going at it, but not limited to. I found the loose one about the sixth time going through the manuals adjustment proceedure. Seems like I should have caught it before then, but I'll admit I'm not above human error, or just plain old brain fart when the time is right. I haven't found a loose one since, and it sure is a loud single tapping sound. BTW, the one that I found loose just happened to be the one that was dragging in the video. For what ever it's worth.

On cars with high miles, Toyota pick ups come to mind off hand, I have had to adjust the valve clearances maybe two thousandnths tighter than spec to minimize noise in worn valve trains. But those were pushrod motors. My Goldwing manual states .004 for intakes and .005 for exhausts. That's not much room to play with. I'll look through Roadys tutorial. I know I've seen it before and it seemed pretty straight forward at the time, but whatever I'm looking for right now I'm not gonna find it by not looking.

 

[dan filipi]

I would pull both valve covers and while rotating the engine by hand, "feeling" each tappet play by hand, look for one that has extra play at some point in rotation. Could be a bad rocker (bent or cracked) or flat spot in the cam.

Just had thought, check the cam holder bolts are tight and the cam holder is seated tight to the head.

 

[mcgovern61]

I am not a mechanic by trade and I have not done any real head work, (So my opinion should be taken accordingly, more of a parts changer in my mind) but I do think that valve was worked on for some reason by the PO. Sticking like that (before you took off the burrs) wasn't helping, particularlly if it might have been sticking during adjustment giving a wrong adjustment. I am inclined to also think the rocker is slightly bent? From the sound, there is a gap between metal for sure.

 

[scdmarx]

I would pull both valve covers and while rotating the engine by hand, "feeling" each tappet play by hand, look for one that has extra play at some point in rotation. Could be a bad rocker (bent or cracked) or flat spot in the cam.

I keep entending to do this every time I go out there, but my mind gets caught up in other directions.

I was just compareing Roadys procedure to the manual. He goes on to use T-2 to check #3 & #4. The manual makes no mention of this. Do you think there might be that much difference?

I can't help the feeling this type of noise has gotta be something simple. I'm still hoping to discover something wrong in the valve adjustment. I'm just not finding it right off and going off the deep end chaseing wabbits.



Be veeeeeewy kwiet!

 

[scdmarx]

I am not a mechanic by trade and I have not done any real head work, (So my opinion should be taken accordingly, more of a parts changer in my mind) but I do think that valve was worked on for some reason by the PO. Sticking like that (before you took off the burrs) wasn't helping, particularlly if it might have been sticking during adjustment giving a wrong adjustment. I am inclined to also think the rocker is slightly bent? From the sound, there is a gap between metal for sure.

Putting the condition of that valve together with the slight wobble of the cam gear, I suppose there is the possibility that valve might have siezed at some point. It would have had to have done so in a closed position or the engine would be junk. Perhaps from sitting for ages? The rocker arm being cast metal, it would have broken most likely, I think. At best it would have been a pretzel. Either way it would have to been replaced. And if that's not the case, maybe some crack head just stuck a prybar where it shouldn't have been. But I still should be able to adjust the clearance I would think. Something to keep in mind. :thanks:

 

[joedrum]

well ron if the PO did tighten the exhast to tight to keep it from making noise there would have been some loss in how it ran ....if its never ran right or at 100 percent then this is not a far fetch senairio ......idont know but ive always spilt my guts out about condition of stuff i sell .....its amazing what people will do....but it could have been done in igornace .....ive done a lot of things in that mode ....it beats doing nothing and you can learn from it ....

anyway were going to get this right i know throgh your hands ron

 

[scdmarx]

Thanks Joe. I truely believe that I have the best help available to me right here. Some things just take longer than others to get to the bottom.

 

[scdmarx]

Well, I went out there this morning and started walking around the bike, thinking of all I been through and where I could possibly go with this next. I'm kinda tired of adjusting valves, but might have to do that some more if I can't think of anything else. If I do that again, then I'm gonna just try pointing the lobe away from the rocker on each valve and check adjustment one at a time. Anxious to get this mess put back together, yet feeling frustrated about the noise, I was really trying to hang on to that last thread of motivation. I know anything I do is gonna be a waste of time. Why should it be any different this time? I guess I was stalling about getting into it, and it's been sitting idle for a good week or so now. What the heck, I turned on the key and tapped the start button and it cranked. The battery seemed to survive the week. So I turned on the gas and moved the choke about half way, then started the motor. Concentrating on the tach while babysitting the choke untill I was pretty certain it would stay running on it's own. Then I turned my attention toward that annoying noise......which......wasn't there. The motor is running and the noise ain't there.
***Well I'll be a :sensored:*** :Awe:

I reved it a couple times, and all I could really hear was the typical whine that my other GW makes. The tent was filling with smoke, so I reved it a couple more times and shut it off. Shut the gas off and went back into the house. I came back out in an hour or so, started it again. You know, now that the noise is gone I can really appreciate how well it starts and how smooth it idles. Not one single pop from the exhaust. There was a lot going on in the exhaust before I started this project. Admiring the smoothness, I put my hand over the exhaust pipe and instead of blowing out at my hand it was trying to suck my hand back in. Same thing on the other side. I don't know what that means, but I just can't get over how nice and smooth this thing idles! I topped off the radiator, installed the recovery bottle and shut it off. Went inside to eat lunch. When my son got home I took him out there and says "watch this". I turned on the gas and the key and touched the start button. It didn't even crank, it just started. First it was silent, then it was running. Smooth and nice. Then we argued for ten minutes that I did nothing to it.

Do miracles happen to motorcycles? I don't know what to say :doh: I'm not sure I'm even ready to know what happened yet.
I think I'm just gonna sit and polish plastic for awhile. I'll go out there once in awhile and start it up again just to listen to it run.

 

[joedrum]

ron .....what can you say ....the only judge of things like that are the ones there presented to :beg: :mrgreen:

 

[scdmarx]

I'm really in no condition to judge anything, Joe. It's a strange feeling. Frustrated, flabbergasted, confused, yet at the same time I feel like I'm in love with the way it runs. Kinda like being really mad at one of my kids, then they'll turn around and make me proud.
It sure looks inviting sitting there with new tires and brakes, new fork seals and t-belts, the fender light and rotor cover lights all rewired and working.

Thank you guys for all your support and encouragement. Sorry to have put you though all this. You probably think I'm some kinda flake. Hey, watchit now!!!!! :lol:

 

[dan filipi]

Hmm, I've had noises on various machines come then go mysteriously but they usually return.

I don't know what to say other than ride it and see what happens as long as you've checked everything that can be checked.

 

[scdmarx]

Hmm, I've had noises on various machines come then go mysteriously but they usually return.

I don't know what to say other than ride it and see what happens as long as you've checked everything that can be checked.

That's the joy of not knowing what it was. :swoon: