The full story of the Hooch build

[joedrum]

I actually honed cross hatch in the cylinders with the caveman tool ...but im realy good with tools controlled by hands...it did a masterful job in doing so :yahoo: :mrgreen:
its just a kitchen chore boy on a stiff wire brush that holds it ...that never touches anything ...and also that drill is variable speed locking type that has knob to adjust speed when locked spins realy slow ...and the mass of the drill helps alot ...touch and feel is everything in hand tool management and control ...it takes some time but is faster than most ways ..the other side of that is it can damage that fast too ...let the tool float and do the work dont apply pressure hold back if anything :mrgreen: :rocks:

I'm going to put this motor in the 77 ...the mongrel will get the other one I have its an 86 1200 too...the plan is going to be tie up the carb rack on the 77 which is 1100 carbs and take the 1000 motor out and to replace it with the 86 1200 im working on ...then attach carbs to it ...there's still the ignition wiring to deal with on the 77 ...but i might be more inclined to do it with the 1200 mod as the outcome to it all ...I'll probably go dyna ignition and hopefully stick coils on plugs ...when I had that going before I thought it was great ...I will probably seperate the ignition from the bike wiring at first to bypass all the honda ignition stuff to be free of that crap as degrading the ignition voltage ...I plan to take pics all along the way untill motor install and running ...I'm looking forward to the 77 1200 oldwing ...might even get heads put on tomorrow and be short block ready for the 77 :clapping: :mrgreen: :builder:

 

[joedrum]

some pics of the 1200 with 1100 heads and 371 early cams installed and soft mounted not torqued yet not quite ready for that ...I will fit belts and time test all clearances first ...if all passes I'll torque....the one pic has the 77 in it this is where the 1200 is going .

I'm going to work on the project 1200 today ...either by taking the 1000 motor out of the 77 or work on the 1200 motor ...probably the motor need to time and adjust valves ....also have to extract a starter bolt thats broke off in the block ...speaking of intake horns I need to see what I'm going to do there to make them work on the 1200 to fit the 1000 carbs.... :mrgreen:
As a final check I timed the 1200 and set the valves too ....all seemed good no hitting of any kind ....its amazing the parts that get put on oldwings that are not right ...out of the three 1200 motors I have only one came with 1200 belts on them ...two came with 1000 belts crammed on ...there way to tight .

 

[joedrum]

I'm in a wow stage now knowing I got it all together and nothing hitting ...I'm past the biggest hurdle ...I'm starting to look at the
bike now and get ready for motor switch ...it's nice everything is in the dry inside building ...I've been lazy lately but will try and get things together to pull motor ....I can't wait to get this 77 naked 1200 going.
It's confirmed the 1000 exhaust in no way can be used on 1200 motor ...you would think it could spread a little to make up for wider motor ...no way ...I have strait pipes I could use or the mongrel 79 exhaust which can be used if I go with the 79 headers also as they have different exit on them than the 75-77 do...and they do spread in the middle ...those are my options on exhaust ...taking things off 77 and readying for removal of motor...
I could use the 83 exhaust they're good but have baffles missing I think its loud compared to the others I have ..but not bad at all hmmmmm.
pic of 1200 motor heads on timed and checked for clearance.

pic of exhaust loose and dropped down ...on 75 -77 the exhaust is quite unforgiving about coming off .

getting everything loose ready to pull rear wheel
Image
I always use some kind of spray lube to help when taking things apart. So far I haven't ran into a starter bolt deal one of the exhaust studs did come out of head ....all the bolts and screws get worked till they can be hand threaded easy...all bolts along the way.
What a nice exhaust for a 77 it's really good and solid ...all bolts worked smooth...axle is put back in final drive ...shock bolts put back in and all ...need to find my c clip pliers for driveshaft...and start on the front half of motor removal :mrgreen:

 

[joedrum]

wow big 1200 going in soon ...got the whole motor out carbs and all ...things went good no problems at all really :heat: :mrgreen:
Lots of cleaning up to do on the frame and also going through the wiring ...which is a problem the 77 already had ...I'm also going to look into all the options I might have in the clutch set up....looks like i can mod the starter hookup from the removable frame piece ..if i cant get the broken bit out I can't dig in there any more .... :builder:

Things will get interesting soon with some of the ideas I've got ...I'm hoping will work on this build... :mrgreen:
I had this side of motor with bolt in frame at back ...and jacked up to where it was hitting

What I did is ...I had the motor basicly bolted to the fixed frame side ...then jacked it up to where it was hitting...then ran a sawzall right through the seam ...it made a perfect guide for blade .....it took 2 slices at it to get enough room....this worked really well and I didnt have to back up ..I kept going forward ...I really took no measurements ....but I was very pleased how well it came out the blade I used was carbide impregnated ...kinda like it was filed .. :mrgreen:
It's in there! All bolted up.

Okay today I went through the cam carriers.....I traded shafts from one side of cam carrier to the other and have the oil holes point down towards the heads ...and you get all the bolts to go in the holes your good ....what this does is tighten the rockers to the shaft as now there on new shaft where the springs were before....plus while the rockers were out I trued the surface where they ride the cam ...they really had to to be brought up to par with the cams ..

 

[joedrum]

a rather important post with pics this is the left side of motor when putting in cams if you have all the adjusters backed in and snugged with lock nut ,,,the carrier will fit all the way down if you have the keyway in about this position before trying to put it on top of the cam and head...this is what I call a neutral spot and it makes it easy to put together not fighting the valve springs ....also at this time the pistons should be sunk 1/2 way down in the cylinders ...one sunk down 1/2 way all are ...from a t1 position it's 90 degrees turn of the crank bolt

Dyna ignition installed.

 

[joedrum]

:yahoo: THE DRAGONWING LIVES ....IT RAN GOOD ,,,REVVED UP NICE ....RAN FOR ABOUT 5 MINUTES AND WHILE IDLING IT DIED ...I'M LETTING IT COOL SOME THEN I'M GOING TO CHECK THINGS over ...it's kinda dark out in the building. I don't want to miss anything I heard no noises at all from lower end ...and revving up nice speaks for itself ...sure its under no load and it acted like it revved crisp and sharp.....so far I'm very pleased ....this is for sure a doable thing ...compression can't be too bad the gas I finally got was low octane alky ...so eric I'd say quit wondering ...it ran to good to far off period :yahoo: :yahoo: arty: :beer: :beer: :Egyptian: :builder: it feels good.
After checking everything over ...I had a loose rotor that needed tightening ...the second run was fantastic ...theres no way this bike is not going to run good. it seems spot on ...its seems like the carbs are quick as any I've ever seen or heard ..just plain crisp ...I certainly cant have any air leaking from the stretched out rack of 1100 carbs ....I need to make a video this thing sounds as good as any straitpipe wing I've ever heard...I'm sure hoping these carbs hang in there at high rpm if they do. It will be one bad ass dragonwing ....sheesh the gearing is going to something this is the lowest geared anything that can be put together from oldwings ...it sure seems the gamble on the motor is good just the transmission on the unknown block ...course the stator and clutch are to be proved yet also ...but the test is over and it passed to next stage of work :builder: :mrgreen:

 

[joedrum]

The Video.

 

[joedrum]

Wow I'm impressed with the video ...I'm going to have to come up with new name. dragonwing is taken by a really nice looking 1000 build ...that looks as good as this bike sounds ....today while Dan was fixing up my total lack in putting the video up ...I was able to do a huge mod in my book ...moded the 1000 timing belt cover to the 1200 motor this gives it room where the 1200 cover hit the frame and looked 1200 ...it now looks 1000 even with the timing covers on .. :mrgreen:

This is what had to go on the timing cover for it to work on 1200 ...I like this addition unexpected and really makes it 1000ized :mrgreen:
got the 1000s covers on there was a hole modification too that I had to do on the inside bolt on the left side I cut ...came out nice it's going to be very 1000 looking ...now to move on to the clutch ...hydro setup.
today I officialy found all the parts to the hydro clutch I hope to get hooked up on .... HOOCH new name for 77 1200 big dog...so I'm hoping to get cruising on this job tomorrow :builder: :mrgreen:

Very important post today ...an unknown bit me hard today ...the slave clylinder I haven't put on the motor yet wont go with motor in frame :shock: :rant: oh2: ....oh boy what a boooob...I check the 1200 manual and it is removable in 1200 bikes ...so this is unique to me and the 77 1200....so I'm going to cut it out for access to slave and clutch as an upgrade in a user friendly way ....so I'm kinda glad it happen that I left the slave out ....to fix this problem now :mrgreen:
sheesh ...the deal is clutch cover won't come off either ...looks like im going to cut it out now ...only problem is ...its holding the bike up now :shock: :smilie_happy: so I need to prop it up some other way before cutting ....I'm okay with this ...once done it will be access to clutch and all there ....I'm rather good on structure integrity and this is not as crucial as it looks for strength ...its mostly beefy for the centerstand ...there's a cross frame piece right by the swingarm and there's also the motor mounting bolts are there close too ...it's not going anywhere if its removed ...and also can be fixed back out of the way ....sheesh big day today .

 

[joedrum]

Well frame cut went well...I cut it out before I had to do other things that involved freezing me to the bone......the 1100 frame is no problem in this area ...camera too cold to work either no pics ...used a motor lift to lift bike enough to saw centerstand frame out ... came out nice left a big stub on both sides one accommodates brake lever spring the other is there for for the frame fix ...when done I will have access to clutch and all related ...

You can see the total access of the clutch area slave mounted and ready for fluid ..it was cold today so I stopped here .....from here it's pretty much plug and play after clutch is working ...the way the bike is lifted the rear will go right on ...on the frame I have several ideas I'm thinking on to put cross member fixed and removable one :mrgreen:
We have clutch ... :yahoo: :yahoo: ...I managed not to get covered with the stuff :shock: :yahoo: :yahoo: ....time to move to shaft mod ...I'm not sure what that is right now hmmmmm ....but right now its fixing to happen :headscratch: :builder: :mrgreen:

 

[joedrum]

okay I'm doing the drive shaft right now ....most people switch shafts here to the 1000-1100 final drive output shaft from 1200 output shaft that has no snap ring to hold shaft on ...well I've never spent one second of time liking doing that job so ....I'm not going to do one thing to bring this burden on me ....I'm going to do something else like drill the shaft end and tap it for set screw or pin it ...by drilling output shaft some or all the way through and out the other side ...I've got it joint end about drilled through one side ...had to stop and resharpen bit ...going back out to go again today .....I'm done working on drive shaft today ...just sucks here and my drill bit is toast and so is me sharpening it while shaking and freezing ...its really toast ....I almost got all the way through but no not yet.

P1010050

• slabghost
• Mar 5, 2013

If you look at the rubber boot you will notice that it is folded inside out ...placed on the motor that way ...and in the grove on the motor where its suppose to be ...in the hopes that it will roll over nice all the way to the swingarm and pop right in the groove .... yeah like that's going to happen ...its my latest try at something that I need to get better at you can see where I've been drilling ...or was ...I can get right at it with a big powerful slow turning 1/2" drill ....need bits and some warmer weather .As things go I had to go to town bought some bits ....its not working obviously the metal down a the spline level is hard ....so if anyone has a suggestion on how to bust through this ujoint end I'm all ears ....sheesh
There is no snap ring groove on the 1200 output shaft ...the only way to have one is change out output shafts ...and I didn't want motor and output shafts not going together ...its just having the right bit is all ...I'd already be done if I did ...I'm going to fix it good enough to test the bike ...and probably get the bit I need to finish it up when I can ...I don't like things set up so dumb as this is ,,,its the only thing that makes dropping the motor a big deal to me anymore ....I've got things moded elsewhere so that motor removal is a easy process.

 

[joedrum]

test ride is in ...it ran great ...I was very easy on it but did pull with it a couple times ....the gearing is going to be fine for a street bike ...there is no clutch work to get this going the carb set up seems fine ...the pull was huge even from low rpm ...heck even from stop ...this is helmet yanking sore neck type deal if you ain't ready for it ...5th gear has quite a spread from 4th and on the short highway run I did it seemed to cruise just fine ...tach not working so have no idea what rpm it was at 60 mph but it seemed okay and in a good zone ....theres no doubt that the sound on the video translates into performance on the road ...as I said I was easy on it and never got anywhere near where cam and all really kick in it just not time I don't have much seat time in this bike at all ...so I'll keep things sane till everything is known about bike and the driveshaft is fixed .....

The bike is not for sale as other 1200 mod bikes have been ...to me I see this as total success now and this bike is a monster of torque and it it is geared to prove it ....5th seems to be about like stock 1000 and this rest of the gearing is from the dragstrip world ....its quite the package as I thought it would be ....I'm very pleased thrilled and feel things words don't describe...

Cool post to make I got hooch running wasn't hard really just needed a boost with jumpers once running ran fine ...here's the deal the last ride I did it seemed to start missing some and acting like it did before when the 1000 motor was in it and running then start cutting out ...so I went over everything in my mind ...and the only common deal left that stayed the same from the 1000 running and hooch was the wires from the battery box where the points and condenser hook up or dyna would hook up ...and these wires run from there to the coils no break up at all till they get to coil connectors .....

So today I wired around those wires the blue and the yellow .I jumped hooch off ....and it appears I finally found the problem either the blue or yellow wire is weak and cutting out right in the wire ...I ran hooch awhile it hasn't wavered at all and when I finally shut it off I revved it. It was instant and quick just all race engine like ....

So with these old bikes you never know what might be the difference in night and day running of your wing ......iggy is huge guys just huge ...these plugs were gap huge on the motor looks about .040 ...it's the way the mongrel was set up before I took the perfectly good running bike apart ...the ends are resistorless I'm sure thats the way I did it ...I didn't check it out so you know my memory is a liar ...but I think I got this one.......
I have been messing with this 77 a long time ...major problem that took bike down probably 20 yrs ago when last registered and finally fixed ...a straight piece of wire ...sheeesh. Lots of fishing to catch that wire .

After considering all ideas for quite awhile ...I've got a new one on the driveshaft mod ...not really the best ...but maybe something I can afford ....the 1200 in the 77 frame ..theres a slight difference in where the output shaft is ...in relation to front and back ...the 1200 is closer to the rear wheel enough to keep the driveshaft from coming all the way off the out put shaft....so I'm thinking of milling the face of the end joint till it will separate from the output shaft like it should ....when this happens ...there will be output shaft from 1200 motor expose to cut in a snap ring groove ...like the stock setup ....I never like the idea of having 1100 around that had 1200 output shafts that wouldn't work in 1100 bikes ....

 

[backlander]

:clapping: :clapping: Sounds like a success to me Joe. :good: I was wondering about the drive shaft. Are the splines different on the 1000 final drive and the length of the shafts different between the 1000 and the 1200? I've got my 1200 drive shaft out if you need some measurements.

 

[Ansimp]

Unreal effort Joe :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
:good: :good: :good:

 

[Steve83]

It looks to me like the 1200 drive shaft is spring-loaded at both ends to keep it centered on the splines. I like your set screw idea if you can make it work, otherwise a snap ring is probably in order.

Joe, you've done an amazing build, and inspired us all! Way to go! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :good: :good: :clapping:

 

[backlander]

What I had in my feeble mind was since it's a 1200 engine with 1200 output, if it was possible to use the 1200 ujoint, shaft to mate up to the 1000 final drive therefor not needing a snap ring, just a wild redneck thought that went flying thru what little intelligence there is floating around in that vast void between my ears. :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy:

 

[AApple]

Joe....someone posted a couple of pics a week or so ago with their 1200 rear diff out. The yoke that splines into the trans shaft had a spring behind it....pushing the yoke forward...keeping it seated on the trans output shaft. I was gunna bring it to your attention then, but forgot. I think that may be just the answer for your driveshaft issue.....
Imma gunna look for the pics now. :read:

Found it!!

Here's the original post, too.

Anyway....would this be a solution on the Hooch-mobile?

 

[joedrum]

thanks joel...im going to try

 

[dan filipi]

There ya go, a spring to keep it in place.
The heck with any kind of keeper!

 

[westgl]

Sorry I did not see this earlier,

I have a 84' GL1200 that I currently have apart and my 86' GL1200 that has been apart several times.

Pulling the rear diff is an easy & quick task on the 1200's.

 

[westgl]

Most Excellent Build by the way.

Joe you are the Master, or should I call you the Doctor

Great job