1985 LTD 2018 Fall Work Period

[Rednaxs60]

More done today. Took out the coils and tested. Came in on spec, 2.9 ohms, spec is 2.6 +/- 0.3.

Checked the relays. The one I thought was buried under and just forward of the coils is a starter relay. Checked it and works fine.

The relay in question is just to the right of the right coils and can be accessed without taking the coils out (picture of location to follow), or the front fairing off. Checked it for operation, and it is U/S. Checked the wiring back to the cruise control unit and good continuity. Called my local dealer and he was surprised to know he is supposed to have 3 in stock, one in dealer stores, and 2 in its obsolescence warehouse. Will know more later this week. Price is a bit steep as well, but we will be doing some dickering if possible.

Finding out some of the description(s) in the manuals do not match what is on the bike, or similar parts are located in the same area. This is the case with the starter relay and the cruise indicator relay. The parts fiche description does not match the manual description either.

Routed the new to me GR/GL sensor plate. Had to take the OEM connector off to route the wires then install wires back in the connector. Hook up tomorrow. Checked the original install and the sensors came in on spec.

Lots of good work to date, and getting some issues taken care of that I should have addressed a while back. It'll all come together.

Cheers

 

[mcgovern61]

When built my new fuse/relay panel from an 86 SEI, those manuals were terrific for tracking down circuits (lots of them!).

 

[Rednaxs60]

They manuals are quite accurate and if followed, once you make sure you have the correct circuit/part, you will get to the issue. Have to peel back some of the tape, conduit the wires are in to make sure there is a wire match with the schematic.

 

[Rednaxs60]

Finished with the cruise system checks. IAW the electrical troubleshooting manual, all circuit power checks are good. The next step is to check the auto leveling system because the cruise indicator lights are not coming on. Systems appear to be interconnected. All else being equal, manual says to check the cruise control unit. These are available, but a bit pricey.

The relay that has to be replaced is a simple relay but incorporates two switches:

The switch is circled. The relay as installed:

The relay is oblong because of the two internal switches. New, this switch is going to be close to $100.00 (taxes in). There are several on line and from Straightwings across in Langley outside Vancouver for $13.00 USD, plus shipping, approximately $35.00 CDN. Will be debating this, and check Straightwings site for other items. Will check for a cruise unit.

My jury rigged unit, an auto relay works just as well. I have the output from the relay split into two to accommodate the circuit requirement:

I have some electrical parts I need to order from Eastern Beaver, and its 20 amp relay is quite compact and comes in at approximately $12.00 USD. The output from the relay only has to be switched which the circuit does, and have the output split for the two wires to the cruise unit.

I have ordered the "suspension" for the original relay - this is the rubber mount for the relay. May wait until it comes in and determine if the auto relay will fit into the "suspension", and use the auto relay.

I'm thinking about a thread over on the Steve Saunder's forum where "Broke Winger" posted that he enjoyed his 1100, but when he got rid of it, it had Dodge, Ford, Nissan, Yamaha, HD, and other non-Honda parts. The TPS units on the 1200 fuelies needs to be an inventive alternative, so are some other parts. There is NOS stock out there, very limited and pricey mind you, and some good used parts (tongue in cheek - old is old). My point is that these older bikes that are less complicated are sometimes easier to keep on the road. Think of the Boeing aircraft, the more that is done to alleviate issues and enhance flying the more can go wrong. Sonya's niece and husband have a Chev truck. The other day the dash lit up, engine stopped and steering wheel locked. No one was hurt, but if on the road could have been a bad scene. Dealer had no idea what happened and just reset the computer(s). Happened a day or so later as well, once again, dealer just reset the computer(s). New and more improved doesn't necessarily mean better. Alternative parts, and the ability to modify what is fitted is not going to get easier with more and supposedly better technology. My rant for the day.

Cheers

 

[Rednaxs60]

Continued with the work.

Checked out the operation of the automatic level control system IAW the manual; however, the air compressor does not cycle on and stay on until the switch used is let go. More investigation to do. Since the auto level control system works as it should, looking more likely that the cruise control unit is U/S. Will start looking for an inexpensive replacement

Found a screw I had dropped the other day.

Took out the air pressure control valve and checked the solenoid and to make sure all orifices/openings were clear. The rear air circuit orifices are not as clear as should be, and the circuit does not work as good as it should.. Will be taking the air pressure control valve out later, soak and clean all orifices.

The air compressor does not stay on when required, it cycles. It's a little more involved to get the compressor out so it will be for another work period.

Checked the compression as I have some 200 or so Kms on the engine. #1 - 167, #3 - 168, #2 - 164, #4 - 161. As long as the numbers are north of 150, like a lot.

Did a cylinder bank balance and TPS calibration. Cylinder balance is good:

I only use the outer gauges. TPS is set at 0.480 VDC.

I've mentioned the cruise system indicator relay and the cost of a new relay versus a used relay. Until I get to the mainland, have decided to wire up an auto relay to the 4P connector to replace the OEM relay in the short term. Here is my rendition of the OEM relay:

More to follow.

Cheers

 

[pidjones]

That relay may be more reliable.

 

[Ansimp]

pidjones » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:26 am[/url]"m2glg8c]
That relay may be more reliable.

Somehow I am not too hopeful that new current replacement relays will last 30 years again! But then at their replacement price you can afford to replace them more frequently. :yes:

 

[Rednaxs60]

Ansimp » 9 minutes ago[/url]":1sx5lyp8]

pidjones » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:26 am[/url]":1sx5lyp8]
That relay may be more reliable.

Somehow I am not too hopeful that new current replacement relays will last 30 years again! But then at their replacement price you can afford to replace them more frequently. :yes:

It's not a critical component so if it fails, no harm no foul. Something like the information I've read about regarding TPS units. Not a lot of QA going into these products.

 

[Rednaxs60]

Quick update. Bike back on the road. Like how the engine is operating. Still not as new, but it is my retirement project so I will endeavour to persevere. Have the start up fuel/oil smell as per before. Don't know why, yet! Will be checking the plugs later on. Overall, pleased with what I have accomplished.

Going to look into a replacement for the spark unit resistor pack. Think this will have to be made. Replacing old with old is still old. This unit is actually for the injectors, don't know why it is called what it is.

The spark units can be replaced with new from Procom. It is a five wire unit, but you do not hook up the wire that is supposed to go to the pulse coil.

Coils are good, so these are not on the list.

Looking into an ECU replacement as well. This will be a challenge.

Time to ride it and enjoy. Cheers

 

[julimike54]

Rednaxs60 » Yesterday, 10:35 am[/url]":ecvukil8]
SNIP
Have the start up fuel/oil smell as per before. Don't know why, yet! Will be checking the plugs later on. Overall, pleased with what I have accomplished.

SNIP
Time to ride it and enjoy. Cheers

Wouldn't the smell be strongest at cold start due to the system running rich until warmed up?, or does it happen every time?

 

[Rednaxs60]

julimike54 » April 1st, 2019, 6:20 am[/url]":1ls2buyd]

Rednaxs60 » Yesterday, 10:35 am[/url]":1ls2buyd]

Wouldn't the smell be strongest at cold start due to the system running rich until warmed up?, or does it happen every time?

Been thinking about this for a few days. The smell is strongest on cold start, but is there after sitting for a few hours.

Have checked/tested everything I can think of. Sensors check out good. There was only two areas that were slightly off - the spark unit resistor (actually for the injectors), just out of spec, and the spark units, white wire not having actual battery voltage as per manual.

Will be looking at the cylinders as well. Should be able to go in through the spark plug holes and have a look. If the back of the intake valves are dry there should be no fuel/oil in the cylinders, unless there is oil getting past the rings. The compression is quite good now, but the rings could be letting oil past.

If this is the case, probably need to remove the glaze that has built up over the years. More to follow.

 

[Rednaxs60]

Went out for a good breakfast and took in the old battery for a load test. On the lower end of the scale - new one coming.

Did a borescope of numbers 2 and 4 cylinders through the spark plug holes. Bike has been on side stand for the past day or so, and as such no need to look at numbers 1 and 3 cylinders.

Checked #4 cylinder first - dry. Checked #2 cylinder, plug wet - and there is oil in the cylinder. Pic of cylinder - like my little borescope:

With this in mind, will put the bike on thee centre stand and check cylinders 1 and 3. At least I now know why I get the smoke/smell on start. What to do with it is another question.

May have to always use the centre stand, but will know more after I look into cylinders 1 and 3. Will look at #2 cylinder as well when I do this.

Cheers

 

[julimike54]

"white wire not having actual battery voltage as per manual."

Seem to remember there being a relationship between proper voltage and full spark voltage, that might be the culprit I'd look into.....

 

[Rednaxs60]

julimike54 » Today, 1:43 pm[/url]":k0jlcf6h]
"white wire not having actual battery voltage as per manual."

Seem to remember there being a relationship between proper voltage and full spark voltage, that might be the culprit I'd look into.....

You're right about this. Battery SOC, charging system, sensors, connectors, all interwoven, especially on these FI models. I'm thinking ordering a set of the Procom PE-C-MH900-A igniters. These are a 5 wire unit, but have a work around for this already. A fellow over on the NGW forum has used these for an FI project and does not use the "blue" wire.

The spark unit resistor is another item I'm thinking about as well. Should be able to make one of these.

Feel better finding oil in a cylinder. Been chasing this for a couple of years now.

Cheers

 

[Rednaxs60]

Put the bike up on the centre stand for the night. Went in with the borescope and checked the cylinders for oil residue/leakage. All cylinders looked good. #1 cylinder:

#2 cylinder:

Number 3:

Number 4:

You will notice the oil buildup on the piston heads. These were cleaned prior to putting the heads back on. Even though pleased with the compression numbers, will have to consider a ring job in the near future. Great to have a project bike, eh what.

After having the bike on the centre stand for the night, could see a slight bluish plume on start. Didn't last long, but it was there. Was reading/reviewing the thread by Canuckxxxx this morning, '84 1200 engine for a '82 GW, and there is a lot of good info there - can we say tutorial.

Checked the plugs as well. Pleased with the colour:

Have some parts ordered from the local Honda dealer. Talked to my parts fellow and he mentioned the cruise indicator relay to me again. I mentioned to him that I have installed a good work around. He accepted this, but has three of these relays and he wants to get rid of at least one so he mentioned to me that I should make an offer. I can get a good used one for $13.00 USD but then there would be shipping etc. Don't want to insult him but he did ask me to come up with a number. Since it is specific to, and a specialty relay, thinking, in jest, to offer $20.00 CDN. All he can say is no.

 

[Rednaxs60]

Thinking about a possible ring job for this engine. Bike is mechanically sound, heads just redone, frame/wheel bearings done all round, new clutch 30K Kms ago, alt conversion, new rad core 1 1/2 years ago, suspension upgrade to Race Tech and Progressive parts 35K Kms ago, upholstery redone in leather, new brake rotors all round 35K Kms ago, and a host of other smaller items that I have installed for my use. Have a new water pump on hand as well. Won't discuss the time and resources put into the CFI system - still looking into an ECU replacement. I have kept track of the costs, not for the faint of heart.

Checked with the local machine shop regarding the cylinder glaze and honing cylinders, approximately $100 for both halves with a case cleanup as well. Shouldn't need the cylinder faces machined flat as there are no issues to date. Cylinder boring if needed would be another expense, but these are robust engines and from what I have read when a ring job has been done on these, no need to bore slightly oversize.

This would also allow me to clean and paint the engine block, get it spruced up.

Another reason I can see for doing this work is that there are not a lot of the FI engines out there at a reasonable price for us north of the border. You can also spend a lot of money on a used, old engine and still have issues.

Will be contemplating this and doing my research as well.

Cheers

 

[pidjones]

The original rings should ho 200k miles, at least, IMHO.

 

[Rednaxs60]

Checked the cost of a set of rings on eBay. $75.00 CDN to the door from Japan, 75.5 mm. Will depend on what the machine shop finds, hopefully the cylinders will be good without any machining.

Looking into what gaskets will be needed. Have the rear cover gasket, clutch cover gasket, and the water pump gasket requirements. Not too many more to find/source.

Won't be a show bike, but it will be a good runner. Besides, never having done this type of work on a motorcycle is kind of enjoyable and very satisfying. Sort of like all those projects I keep reading about on the forums.

Cheers

 

[mcgovern61]

:good:

 

[Rednaxs60]

Thanks to everyone who has been following my work period and the progress on the bike. Now to go into the research mode, pick up a few items I've identified as needed now and for the next work period. New tires coming this week for install, Shinko Tourmaster. Going to be a good summer.

Cheers