1985 LTD Side Stand Interlock and Indicator Light Circuit

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Rednaxs60

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This subject just keeps rearing its ugly head. Got in a hurry the other day and left the side stand down again. There is a lot of information found on the various forums about side stand indicator lights and a few with wiring mods that do most of what an OEM installed system does. When I find a new thread on this issue, I generally peruse it and the associated the recommended threads to read to see what has been done and is available.

I found a thread the other night and one of the posts directed me to an NGW thread on a side stand Interlock by Gregforesi. He has done a wiring/side stand interlock mod to his bike that is quite well done. I looked at his schematics and unfortunately I have yet to fully understand the use of all the relays and how it works; however, I do understand his basic schematic. His thread is at: https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic. ... +interlock

The item that controls the start/stop of the bike due to the side stand is the engine stop switch. Controlling the power to this switch is how the side stand interlock/indicating light system works. Power is controlled by using a relay that is controlled by a 12 VDC switched power circuit and grounded at three different points in the electrical system, these being:

side stand switch
neutral switch
clutch switch

Using the logic from Gregforesi's schematic, anytime the bike's ignition is turned on and the relay-R1 that controls the side stand interlock/indicator light system is not energized, the bike will turn over but will not start.

I also have the engine stop switch used to energize the accessory fuse block I installed. If the side stand interlock/indicator light circuit is not energized I will have no accessory power and there will be no power to the coils - should not be an issue.

The side stand indicator light can be a solid on or flashing light, your preference.

The 12 VDC switched power circuit to power real-R1 can be from any switched source.

When the side stand interlock/indicator light circuit is not powered and the ignition switch is on, the bike will turn over but not start.

I did take Gregforesi's initial drawing and do the same to the schematic for my '85 LTD. I find that the key to this setup is the grounding of the relay used to power the side stand interlock/indicator light system. I also refreshed my memory about how you would want the system to work that Wingadmin from Goldwing Docs detailed in one his posts. Wingadmin's logic sequence is:

Neutral: ignition enabled, starter enabled
In gear with kickstand down: ignition shut off, starter disabled
In gear with kickstand up: ignition enabled, starter disabled
In gear with clutch in and kickstand up: ignition enabled, starter enabled
In gear with clutch in and kickstand down: ignition shut off, starter disabled

Using all this info, and finally finding a schematic that works for almost all of the above logic, here is the modified schematic for my '85:
1985 GW Starter System 005.jpg
I have labeled relay-R1. The coil is between pins 85/86. The power supply to the engine shutoff switch is between pins 30/87. The switch between pins 30/87 is normally open. When power is supplied to the coil between pins 85/86, the switch between pins 30/87 closes supplying power to the engine stop switch

When you turn on the ignition switch on with the side stand down, the side stand interlock/indicator light circuit is energized by a switched 12 VDC power circuit and relay-R1 is grounded through the neutral switch at point #1. The connection is after the clutch diode that ensures there is no conflict with the clutch switch, and the side stand switch is only grounding the side stand indicator light. This part of the system meets the requirement of:

Kickstand down, in neutral = start/run
Kickstand down, in gear = no start, no run

The side stand interlock/indicator light circuit has a ground point through the clutch switch. This will allow you to start the bike in gear with the side stand down, but will not allow you to ride away with the kickstand down because once you release the clutch to ride away the ground for relay-R1 will be lost de-energizing the side stand interlock/indicator light circuit.

With the kickstand up, ignition switch on, and the bike in neutral, the bike will start because the side stand interlock/indicator light circuit is energized by the switched 12 VDC power circuit and relay-R1 is grounded through the side stand switch and the neutral switch. With the side stand in the up position the side stand indicator light is now off. The bike will continue to run when shifted into first or another gear because the side stand interlock/indicator light circuit relay-R1 is still grounded through the side stand switch. This satisfies:

Kickstand up, in neutral = start/run

The next part of the logic sequence that I had to address was:

Kickstand up, in gear, clutch out = run, not start

This is addressed by grounding relay-R1 of the circuit through the side stand switch.

The last part of the logic sequence to be addressed:

Kickstand up, in gear, clutch in = start/run

This is where I decided the side stand interlock/indicator light circuit had to be grounded through the clutch switch. This last part of the logic sequence is accomplished by having the side stand interlock/indicator light circuit grounded either through the side stand switch or the clutch switch. Not too sure if the ground through the clutch switch is required. If not, it will simplify the wiring requirements.

Gregforesi came up with an elegant solution for a side stand switch. Here is his picture of the side stand switch installtion:

https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic. ... +interlock

The side stand is not very conducive to a nice install of a side stand switch as it is approximately 1" from the bike frame in the up position.
Kickstand with Measurement.jpg

Found a waterproof magnetic switch on Ebay.ca (CDN version) $26.00 free shipping. The product is Directed Electronics Inc 8600 Micro Magnetic Switch:
Waterproof switch.JPG
Specs:
Micro Magnetic Switch. Brand: Directed DEI8600. Compact, Magnetic Switch. Normally Closed When Contacts Are Apart. Product Class: 12 Volt Security/Starters.

I would mount this switch so the piece with the wires would be on the bike frame and the other piece on the side stand. If I read the specs correct, when the side stand is down and the contacts are apart, the indicator light would be on and the bike should not start unless in neutral.

Started on the wiring for the side stand interlock/indicator light circuit. Finding the right wires in the maze of wire harness is a feat in itself. I started with wiring into the clutch diode wiring as it is the easiest to get at. When I was doing work on the clutch diode wiring I removed the clutch diode from the connector so that soldering and shrink tube heating would not affect the diode.
Clutch Diode Removed.jpg

After each step I put the clutch diode back into the connector and ensured the bike still started. Did not want to get to a point where the bike would not start.

The clutch diode on the '85 LTD is at the rear of the bike and shares the same placement as the saddlebag connections:
Clutch Diode Position.jpg

The arrow points to the clutch diode.

The side stand interlock/indicator light circuit has the wire splice after the clutch diode and before the neutral switch. The wire colour is light green/red stripe.
Clutch Diode Wiring.jpg
The wire that looks like it is white with a red stripe is actually light green with a red stripe.

I have started taking the switch with the engine stop switch attached apart so I can splice into the necessary wires. I first removed the front brake MC from the handle bars. Next was to take the switch casing apart that houses the engine stop switch. This is proving to be more challenging because the throttle cables are not allowing me to just take the switch apart and work on it. Will have to see what is required to possibly disconnect the throttle cables so I can get at the wiring.

The wire needed for the circuit will be left coiled up for the time being as I still have to get the side stand switch.

More to follow.
 

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Rednaxs60

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Had a lot of assistance on the Goldwing Docs site as well from WingAdmin. I find that a lot of collaboration is good and the final results are what is expected.

I've started to print out the information I found on this and other issues. There are a lot of talented people out there.

I also have a bike log/article of sorts where I am chronicaling how I ended up with an '85 LTD, my thoughts on buying-owning-working on an older vintage bike, and what I have don to this one. Keeps my thoughts in order and puts the information I have in one spot.

More to do today on the side stand circuit. When I took the handle bar switch apart last night I found that I have to release the throttle cables from the switch housing. When I looked at the cables I noticed the one cable securing hole is oblong. Don't believe this is how it should be. Will be reading up on how to emote the cable and see if I can find a new handle. Don't need throttle issues down the road. Will post pictures later.

Do one project and more maintenance pops up. Never ending story.
 

dan filipi

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Seems like a great mod.

My new KLR has a safety, was a bother until I got used to it.
I'm wondering about the magnetic switches at stand up if you're on a rough road that could make the side stand bounce away from its home up position?
Maybe not, that spring is pretty strong holding it up.

Oh wait that wouldn't matter because you're already started....never mind.
 

Rednaxs60

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Dan - according to my circuit diagram, when on the road, the only ground for the circuit is through the side stand switch. If the side stand were to move far enough away from the up position, it may cause the bike to quit. I'm not certain the magnetic switch that I have found will be what I put on, but it is a good option right now.
 

Rednaxs60

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Took some time this morning to read through the information I have gathered about the side stand interlock/indicator light. I noticed that I had information from nlaspencade out of Newfoundland. He had hooked up a circuit that tapped into the downside of the engine stop switch. I thought about this and whether the wire tap is before or after the engine stop switch will not affect what I am trying to achieve. It will also be easier, and there is very little space at the engine stop switch for any wiring change. here is my updated schematic showing where the wire tap after the engine stop switch:
1985 GW Starter System 006.jpg

When I took the switch apart at the handle bar, I noticed that the return throttle cable connection where the lead on the end of the cable fits into the throttle handle was elongated. After 32 years you can expect things like this to crop up. I probably would not have found this had I not been doing this side stand interlock/indicator light circuit.
Throttle Cable Hole Elongated.jpg

You can see the one hole that is elongated and the second one on the pull side of the throttle that is not.

I have ordered a new handle and new throttle cables. I have new cables coming because last year when I took this bike on a track day it underwent a basic safety inspection. The only issue I ad was the throttle return in that it did not snap back when you took your hand off the throttle. I worked on it and was finally cleared for the day, but it has been something I have thought about. My thoughts are that after 32 years are that even if the cable is in good shape, the cable has been cutting into the cable sheath and there is a build up inside the sheath that is preventing the cable from moving freely. I don't think any amount of of oiling will alleviate this condition.

More to follow.
 

Rednaxs60

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Found the black/white striped wire from the engine stop switch. Will be splicing in to it tomorrow. Had to cut open the rubber wiring covers that are tucked up in the handle bar. Once I got the throttle cables off the switch, and was able to move the wiring harness around, things got easier. I did notice when I split the switch there are three screws holding the switch together. There are two short screws and one long. The two short screws go in the front of the switch, and the long one to the rear:
Throttle Switch Screws.jpg

The throttle pipe tube that the throttle cables attach to have one hole elongated:
Throttle tube cable holes.jpg

WingAdmin over on Goldwing Docs found a used one and apparently the elongated hole is as designed:
Throttle tube cable holes - 1.JPG

Since it is not that expensive a part (less than $10.00 CDN) I will install the new one with the new throttle cables - should be here Thursday.
 

Rednaxs60

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Going to use the black/light green wire from the ignition switch to relay-R1 since I have the wiring exposed. Will pick up the wire needed this morning at my local marine place. Like using marine grade wire because it is extremely flexible and is tinned throughout to eliminate corrosion. Not that much more expensive for these short lengths.
 

Rednaxs60

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Have been progressing this mod. Lots done today to get it to where I think it needs to be.

First let me say that a while ago there was chat about tools, and it was recommended to get long handle needle nose pliers. I started looking for these on sale and finally picked up a set of 11 inch needle nose pliers. I have been using these extensively to help route the wiring for this mod. Well worth the investment:
11 inch needle nose pliers.jpg

All splices have been soldered and covered with shrink tube. I'm using marine grade wiring and labeling the wires with wire markers so I know which wire does what and to what. I am putting these in a spread sheet for future reference because it can get out of control very quickly. The wire markers I use are numbered from 1 to 50:
Wire Markers.jpg
Wire Markers - 2.jpg

I think I may have to get some more that are numbered from 50 to 100.

I needed to decide where to place the indicator light and controlling relay. As is known, real estate for installing additional relays and such is at a premium on these older bikes. The indicator light position is below the radio on the left side. I can see it when I sit on the bike and there is room for wiring and working.
Indicator Light Installed.jpg

I initially put the relay in a spot that would require removing the false tank if a problem occurred:
Relay Home First Try.jpg
This is where the old connector for the stator/RR connectors was located - under the false tank. I realized this could be an issue so I had another good look. I settled on installing this relay under the travel computer on the top of the air box.
Relay Home - 2.jpg

To ensure this would be practical I put the false tank back on and it was a good placement.
Relay Home.jpg
This position will also give me access to the relay in case of relay failure and I have to bypass the relay. I will probably make a jumper so that I can disconnect the wires from the engine stop switch and join them together.

Once I had the indicator light and relay positioned, it was time to tackle the wiring. I have found that for such a small short space, wiring fixes/mods take a very long time and it doesn't look like you've accomplished anything. It was no different today.

I started with the wiring to and from the engine shut off switch. The wires I spliced into were the black/light green striped power wire from the ignition switch to the engine stop switch, and the black/white striped wire from the engine stop switch to the coils, etc.
Kill Switch Wire.jpg

Engine stop switch black/white striped wire ready for splice
The wire splices were all soldered and had shrink tube over the splices for protection:
Wire Splice.jpg

To power the relay for the circuit I spliced into the power wire from the ignition switch to the engine stop switch - a black/light green striped wire. I am also using this wire splice to be the power source to the indicator light. To minimize bulk, I will connect the power wire for the indicator light to this wire splice at the relay.

Finished product with the handle bar wiring harness taped back together - waiting for throttle cable install.
Wire Harness Finished.jpg
 

Rednaxs60

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Next installment.

Once I had the engine stop switch wire and power wire spliced, I routed the wires to the relay that I installed on the air box. Next I wired the indicator light.
Wiring for side Stand Indicator Light.jpg

Since the indicator light is in the front fairing and I may have to take the front fairing off sometime, I installed a 2 prong marine grade connector.
Marine Grade 2 prong plug.jpg

Finished the first batch of wiring for this project:
Wiring to Relay-R1.jpg

The green and red wire that are taped together are from the indicator light, the other 3 wires are from the handle bar splices.

Routed the green wire from the indicator light to beside the side stand where the side stand switch is to be installed.

When I was looking for a switch that would be appropriate for the task, I found a waterproof magnetic switch on line that would do the job, but I wanted to try to source locally. went into Queale Electronics and found a SPDT switch that should do the job as well (same cost). It appears to be very robust and I was told that there are waterproof switch covers that screw onto the switch plunger protecting it from the elements. Will be looking for one of these.
SPDT Side Stand Switch - 2.jpg
SPDT Side Stand Switch.jpg


I'm thinking using 1 inch angle for the side stand switch install;however, when I did a quick fit of 1 inch angle (have some small pieces on hand) there is going to be some fitment issues requiring some imagination.

Tomorrow I will be picking up some connectors, ran out of the ones I need as is always the case.

Also be updating my circuit schematic.

More to follow.

Cheers
 

dan filipi

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[url=https://classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=187569#p187569:i8evjb47 said:
Rednaxs60 » 9 minutes ago[/url]":i8evjb47]
Sorry for the pictures and how these have formatted. Technology is great when it works.
They look great to me.
 

Rednaxs60

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Thanks Dan. As long as they work. Don't know what takes more time, doing the work or chronicaling what is done on these forums. This is my payback to all those who have gone before so to speak. Without a lot of this information, it would be a rough slog.

I mentioned I am doing a personal log/article on my experiences with my bike and I do use what I post to refresh my memory when I get to adding to my bike memoir.

Another dreary day ahead and more bike work to do. Hopefully my parts will be here this afternoon and I can put it together tonight and do a proof of concept.

Cheers
 

Rednaxs60

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Finished up the wiring and hooked up the side stand switch I intend to use and did a proof of concept. It works as the schematic illustrates.

With the kickstand down and the side stand switch in the NC position, the indicator light is on and the bike starts through the neutral switch ground. With the kickstand down and put in gear the bike shuts off, no more neutral ground.

With the side stand switch (simulated by taping the switch in the NO position) indicator light is off, bike continues to run, and the indicator light is off.

Simulated a stall by using the engine stop switch, pulled in clutch and bike starts.

So far so good.

Now a conundrum. I have a neutral light and "N" shift indication on start and when put back into neutral. I no longer have the shift position indication when I put the bike in gear and the neutral light stays on. Bike still runs. I bypassed the ground wires of the side stand interlock/indicator light circuit and hooked the wiring up to ground (as it was before I started the new circuit). No change to the indicators on the LCD display.

I looked further into the wiring schematics and the light green/red striped wire that I have spliced into after the clutch diode to start the bike with the side stand down also goes to the instrument cluster for the shift indicator. This is a schematic of LCD indicator and lights showing where it is that concerns me:
image.jpeg


(a copy of a copy).

Because the power is no longer flowing through the neutral switch to ground, but there is still power on the wire, is it possible to feed the power into the LCD dash conflicting with the shift indications. When I turn the key on, the LCD display for the shift indication comes on as it always has. Is it possible that the shift sensor on right front side of transmission could have been impacted?

Something happened. Looking into the relay issue to determine if I can modify the circuit so that when the side stand is up there is no power on the line going to the wire splice after the clutch diode.

Can still ride the bike and all other items displayed on the LCD dash work as per normal such as RPM, fuel level, temp, kilometers and speed as well as the others.

To summarize, The circuit works, now for some fine tuning, install of the side stand switch, and determine what is going on with the LCD dash.
 
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