Seized engine!

[AApple]

Just for grins, can you get some good shots of the head gasket from the first job? Wondering if this might actually be a gasket issue. You did say the first time, the engine oil was chocolaty, but so far, not on the second one.
Sure would suk a fat one if you got two heads, with the SAME type crack.... :rant:
Did both heads come from the same seller?

 

[Write2Paul90277]

Sorry, AApple, but those gaskets are in the landfill right now.

I can tell you, though that each one I've removed looked pristine -- no gaps, holes or burn marks. If I didn't know better I might have been temped to used them again (the greatest of sins, as judged by the ghost of Soichiro Honda himself, rest his soul).

The two heads were from different sources.

I am shopping for another cylinder head, unless someone convinces me it's time replace the whole darn engine.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[mcgovern61]

I am no pro at this, (at best backyard parts changer) but I would roll the engine until the #3 piston bottoms out and get a real good look in there for any signs of a crack. (I am really hoping you do not find one!) But, the likely hood of two different heads being cracked in the same cylinder doesn't seem right.

 

[Write2Paul90277]

Hi again, Aapple,

To address your other question, "...the first time, the engine oil was chocolaty, but so far, not on the second one?" I WAS WRONG… the oil looked clear on the dipstick, but after draining some from the crankcase, it's as milky brown as NesQuick, but probably not nearly as tasty.

Thx

Paul

 

[dan filipi]

mcgovern61 » 14 minutes ago[/url]":3a5z2b1r]
I am no pro at this, (at best backyard parts changer) but I would roll the engine until the #3 piston bottoms out and get a real good look in there for any signs of a crack. (I am really hoping you do not find one!) But, the likely hood of two different heads being cracked in the same cylinder doesn't seem right.

Agreed!

I gotta think on this one concidering all that's been done and what else could be blowing steam as well as chocolate oil.

I almost hate to say it but I'm pretty sure the crack I had was #3.

 

[joedrum]

well im clueless now .. i guess something did happen to motor ...maybe liner got cracked where you cant see it ... just not making any sense to me

 

[Ansimp]

mcgovern61 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:48 am[/url]":23lv3ore]
I am no pro at this, (at best backyard parts changer) but I would roll the engine until the #3 piston bottoms out and get a real good look in there for any signs of a crack. (I am really hoping you do not find one!) But, the likely hood of two different heads being cracked in the same cylinder doesn't seem right.

+1

 

[AApple]

Looking at the pic of the piston top, you can see where the screw banged it up...and it's not close enough to the edge of the cylinder liner to do any damage, as far as cracking it, or there would be visible marks on the cylinder wall around the top. I agree...need to run that piston all the way DOWN, and have good look.
Not being all that familiar with these engines, I have to assume the cylinder liners are pressed into the casing, probably with some sort of o-ring type seal at the bottom....al-la Scoobydoo(Subaroo for non-Texans) engine. Wonder if it's possible that the liner got knocked off-center, and now is leaking coolant? That would get coolant into the oil, but it wouldn't explain the steaming from the exhaust. :swoon:
Whatever it is, it sure seems like a serious malfunction....that wants to stay hidden.

 

[slabghost]

Have you checked the water pump? Water can easily mix with oil from there. Is there oil in the coolant? have you considered a set of 1100 heads? You'd need to enlarge the valve reliefs slightly but they'll work.

 

[Write2Paul90277]

Thanks each and every one of you for your insights on this frustrating mystery.

As suggested, I will try pulling the cylinder head one more time, run the #3 piston all the way to the bottom of its stroke and check for cracks in the cylinder liner.

If there's no apparent damage there, I could try two final things: (A) look for ANOTHER cylinder head from an engine known to have been running, or (B) look for a low mileage engine and swap the whole darn thing out.

Again, thanks for your kind assistance!

Paul

 

[mcgovern61]

I have to assume the cylinder liners are pressed into the casing, probably with some sort of o-ring type seal at the bottom....al-la Scoobydoo(Subaroo for non-Texans) engine. Wonder if it's possible that the liner got knocked off-center, and now is leaking coolant?

Hmmm......it could be the angle of the picture in this post: viewtopic.php?p=119114#p119114

But it seems the liner at the back end of the cylinder is protruding a tiny bit? (I'm sure it is just the picture angle.)

Another thing to try is to measure the clearance when the #3 piston is all the way up compared to the same measurement when the #1 piston is all the way up. Is it possible that because of the minimal clearance at the piston crown and head, the #3 piston rod is now slightly bent after pounding that screw?

 

[joedrum]

good points....

 

[backlander]

You might try taking the heads to a engine machine shop and having them tested for cracks or use a Penetrating Dye test kit and check them yourself, then you will know what you have. Invisible cracks to the naked eye will open up under pressure and heat.

 

[Write2Paul90277]

That's a great idea. I wonder if that could be done for the engine block as well

 

[joedrum]

theres usually a way to figure out whats up for the aggressive without costing to much at all

 

[AApple]

Otay....so we gots coolant in the erl AND the exhaust. Does it have any erl in the coolant? Have you checked the reservoir for any contamination? On my 1100, I was getting oil in the coolant, but no coolant in the oil(or the exhaust). That was a head gasket problem on mine.
A bad head gasket could give you coolant in the exhaust, and it could get in the oil. A crack in the head could give you both, but it would also over-pressurize the cooling system, and blow bubbles in the radiator. Have you looked for that yet? What does the plug on that cylinder look like, compared to the others?
I really doubt the engine itself is trashed....at least I hope not. Gotta be some problem with the head/gasket, in my mind. I have to assume you cleaned the engine block off really well before installing the head & gasket...to be sure there is no old gasket left, or gouges anywhere?

 

[Write2Paul90277]

Hi folks,

Here's where I stand in my GL1200 tale of woe:

I just finished installing yet another cylinder head (this is my THIRD head) from a known running engine with only 16K miles. After installation, the bike fired up instantly, and -- just as instantly – started belching out GIANT CLOUDS OF SWEET SMELLING WHITE SMOKE. Within a minute, smoke filled my garage, back yard and 3 of my neighbors' yards. Also, fresh coolant was dripping rapidly out of the right muffler's weep hole.

So there's no doubt about it: There MUST be a crack somewhere in the engine block that's allowing coolant to mix with the oil and get into the #3 combustion chamber. It's impossible for me to believe that I got THREE bad cylinder heads in a row. I installed each one by the book with new OEM Honda head gaskets and the alertness of a Swiss watchmaker. Nobody is THAT unlucky.

SO….what I have is a perfectly beautiful 84 Aspencade, in showroom condition (really!)… EXCEPT it needs a donor engine block.

That leaves two questions:

(1) Does anyone have a low mileage 84-86 GL1200 (NON fuel injected) engine they'd like to sell for a song, or…

(2) Does anyone want to buy a mint condition Aspencade with only 23K miles that needs an engine?

No matter what happens, you guys have been great through all of this. I couldn't have pressed on lo these many months without you!

Paul

Redondo Beach, CA

 

[backlander]

Holler at Steve83, he had a engine he converted to EFI for sale, lives somewhere around L.A.

 

[joedrum]

sheesh.....that is nice bike ....

 

[dan filipi]

Ok hold on a second....

Steam from coolant doesn't travel and linger around like you're saying. That sounds like oil or penetrants burning off in the exhaust.

Are you certain the coolant dripping down below isn't coming from above the head?
Coolant can leak from the coolant crossover tubes then make its way down through the water drain holes in the spark plug wells and appear there is a leak from below.
Pull the plug boots after running and look for any wetness in the plug wells, around the coolant tube o rings, and at the coolant head flange.