hooch blew a head gasket

[joedrum]

pics

gee missed a bit of coppercoat ...

a litle more cleaning here also ...as stated ive never use this crap again on anything ...

going to make new choice on sealant...seems i fell into the same motions eric did ...coppercoat didnt work for him either

 

[slabghost]

Well with all that "good reading" I'm fresh out of ideas and suggestions.

 

[joedrum]

after hrs of searching finally find aviation sealant ....

 

[ekvh]

Almost every auto store here carries it. Looks and acts just like old fashioned gasket sealer to me. It's messy and if you don't get it cleaned up good after torquing it will drizzle all over. I used acetone and q-tips. Acetone and paint is not so good.

 

[joedrum]

well not the case in orlando fla ..but finally found some ...got one head back on and the other off ...

 

[joedrum]

pic

well both heads on now ...stuff used i like working with ..hope it works ...need to wait at least 6hrs before trying ...suppose to totally cure in 24hrs ...

 

[dan filipi]

So this try is with hard copper as it came. Not annealed to soften it.

 

[canuckxxxx]

dan filipi » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:38 am[/url]":1zmllkqb]
So this try is with hard copper as it came. Not annealed to soften it.

I think you're suppose to anneal each time you install it. :yes: Compressing work hardens it.

 

[ekvh]

Conventional wisdom says re-anneal it, but if you go back to the sources referenced, there are quite a few guys who don't. Their rationale is you can only anneal copper so many times before it gets brittle. For the price, I annealed mine again when I had them off. If it didn't get very hot, it probably stays soft.

 

[joedrum]

ok the last attempt failed to ...the bike ran great for awhile then started leaking ...ive been reading stuff last night and today also ...im rather convinced this is just not going to work without o ring grooves cut in cylinder sleeves ...it has also been suggested that i might try to put a thin layer of something on the gasket surfaces and use like aviation sealant to ply it all together ...seems like a great idea ...but i have no idea what might work as to use ...im sure on an air cooled motor copper may work fine as a head gasket ..but the oldwing are water cool and completely different situation all together ....the sleeves are very narrow and i dont even see o rings as a possibility to do .....

im thinking it time i give up and buy some stock gaskets ..after reading all the info as ive done ..my intent was to have more reliability and its really looking like less reliability is what i would get ....having a set up that might leak anytime ....i hate going off on someting a failing so bad ..but this is how we get smarter ...it was my belief that these heads were so small i for sure could make it work ...in fact i think now small was actually the problem ..to much going on in to small a space ....time to order some goo gaskets ...my my as someone said there a reason why they make them this way ..and i think for an oldwing it is like mandatory.....the heads are so small if you did use orings for the cylinders ..i dont think you could seal the outside around the cylinders and the oldwing motor would weep water from there...and be very unreliable for like road trips is my thinking ...

im rather sure the biggest deal here was improper fan operation on my bike with the bad wiring it had ...it has proven to me now that the fan wiring in the harness itself would heat up and quit ..i should have caught this before the failure instead of after the failure ..the front fan i put on this bike is a fine fan but the piss poor wiring of this bike didnt handle it well ..id check things and everything would be working ..but this was always at first start up and run it till the fan would cycle and i thought great ...but after bike would run a while and fan was called on eventually the dam wiring would fail and fan would stop ..and not come back on till wire cool off it seems ...mat try one more time to anneal the gaskets while waiting for some some goo gasket to come ..seems there is quite the debate weather this has any merit what so ever to do it ..personally i have no clue ..... :doh:

 

[Rednaxs60]

Joe - when you get it wired and back on the road, put a fan switch in. I installed a fan switch and use it religiously when in slow traffic, at lights, especially during the warmer weather, and when doing practice training. Keeps the temp gauge at 4-5 bars where I like it. I have an indicator light that lets me know if it is on by either the thermal switch or the manual fan switch. Sort of keeps me in tune with the bike instead of just letting the system do all the work. Still have the thermal switch installed and hooked up. Call me old fashion.

I would like to install a thermal switch that has a range closer to the thermostat so it comes on earlier. Still looking for this - perusing the forums for information.

Cheers

 

[joedrum]

it is for sure getting done ..this is really the only oldwing ive had in a long time that didnt have the manual switch mod in it ..and i paid the price...along with the heat gauge not on this bike ..it a 79 tack on it with no gauge in it ...the 77 tack has the heat gauge in it ...so i had none ..stiil dont

 

[backlander]

What a bear you've got on your hands joe!! Without failures along the way progress cannot be made, I'm just glad you have the patience and persistence to get it sorted out. Pretty sure I'd be throwing wrenches and kicking rocks by now. There is so much contradiction on proper install of copper head gaskets it's hard to determine the right way for the old wing engine. Hang in there.

 

[canuckxxxx]

The fact that the other head is leaking now, after holding for awhile, makes me think that you go back to OE type gasket. You just can't depend on them.

BTW, Did you anneal both HGs before installing the first time?

 

[joedrum]

no i didnt brian and that may have been the down fall of everything ...im doing my wiring right now ..and may try anneal them and try again ..but i might just go OE gaskets ..the darn bolts and the water cool make for pretty far away actually from the action ..eric has got his to work ..but his motor is studded ans he did anneal the gaskets ....

right now my main concern is getting this bike going and go get the tractor me and my son are getting ...

 

[ekvh]

I wish mine was studded. I'm thinking the two surfaces have to be smoother for copper than goo gaskets, as well as pretty flat.

 

[joedrum]

well got both the heads off ..seems all the piston were leaking around 6 O clock ...got on sdie all cleaned up ...still debating to try annealing the gasket and trying it again ...seems i got water in the oil too...im hoping this is all from leaking ...there was no oil in the radiator at all ...sheesh what a nightmare ..hooch just might be dead ...

 

[joedrum]

sheesh i got all things cleaned up and pic wont load ...

 

[ekvh]

The downside to copper is the waiting time to cure, whether it's sealant or copper coat. On the oring groove idea, that would need to be precisely placed in the head. Mine is blowing oil on my foot at high rpm from below the small boot on the galley return. It doesn't do it at idle, no drips on the floor when I park it or run it, just when I'm having fun. It's the same place my last head cracked. I have another head to get shaved and then when I change it, I'll have to see if my block is a bit low there. Might explain why it cracked. That could be interesting.

This morning was 36 degrees, now it's 28 degrees. Not much gonna happen here.

 

[joedrum]

well im going to anneal the gaskets ..after the first one im going to check and see how more flimsy it gets if i dont see much ..im going to get stock gaskets and call it a failure ...