hooch getting a new fuel source

[joedrum]

ok after the video i started messing with it ...on the idle mix screw ... this takes a bit as it takes some thime at each move to tell what its doing ...but firs i should have started saying i was able to back off the linkage on the fast idle screw to where it was not touching or right there as it touches and the idle drop .... then when i played with idle mix screw ...basically the throttle plate on primary was closed the loping stop .....and i was right 1000 smooth idle ......the good here was hooch and the people that came to the meet and greet saw hooch climb some rather steep gravel roads like it was nothing for it ... hooch has been a wild horse since the weber was put on and getting to the mail box has been like doing the dragon run ....now hooch is sweet in this area ... but now i have bind hitch on the linkage to take care of before i can ride it .... i am pleased to be standing on new territory :music: :thanks:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EasOfBUMR10[/video]

 

[dan filipi]

Sounding good Joe.
I wonder how it would sound with stock mufflers.

 

[canuckxxxx]

Joe, what colour of plugs would you consider ideal? What is that exhaust you are running?

Brian

 

[slabghost]

canuckxxxx » Thu May 08, 2014 6:41 pm[/url]":3u9ryzoi]
Joe, what colour of plugs would you consider ideal? What is that exhaust you are running?

Brian

Plugs should be a light brown and dry. That is a Jardine exhaust.

 

[joedrum]

well its not perfect .. but after redoing the throttle i can say that hooch is in total success zone running better than it ever has ....the throttle is traveling in a 4" and better circle .. this is as far as the grip can go to get full throttle with wrapping around itself ... this makes it manageable and calmed the beast .... it will be easy to put another location on the throttle ...basiclly iam using the weber linkage took it off ... it is up over to side and dowm linkage that pulls way off pivot point ...so i banged it all strait and flip it from back side of linkage to the front side and increase arch bigtime ... now it pulls strait over pivot .....sheesh it is silky smooth now ... and this bike is successfully moded now ... sheesh theres some precise jetting to do but it so close now ..

brian the last i looked they were brown but more on the dark side as oppose to light brow at the moment ... i think it will get even better

 

[joedrum]

canuckxxxx » Thu May 08, 2014 7:41 pm[/url]":z3hff31u]
Joe, what colour of plugs would you consider ideal? What is that exhaust you are running?

Brian

i missread the question ... i am no plug expert about color .. so i dont really know that answer ... but to me its more about getting rid of the gassy smell while its running and to that end i am looking pretty ...first time here with weber ..it is also about to me that it comes home running like it left .. to me that great sign .. plug color all i ever done in experience is look at charts of it

 

[joedrum]

been rainy ... but today nice ... got a big cavman mod going on today to the weber carb ...results pending LOL

 

[canuckxxxx]

opcorn: :salute:

 

[Ansimp]

:salute: opcorn:

 

[joedrum]

ok things have gone through the steps of caveman modding the dft 32-34.....

my problem all along has been idle to rich and getting jetting right ...its been long road ...id be riding right now ..but it be raining right now .....

as of a week or so ago i started getting jetting close ... the idle was still rich and the longer you idle it the more loaded up it got it would pop and stumbble and carry on trying to get some air and clear the raw fuel ...i will be short and sweet and give details of where hooch is at

jetting....primary barrel....idle gas jet 70...main gas jet 140 ...air bleed 220 ...secondary barrel ...transition idlegas jet 80 main gas jet 120 ...air bleed 160 ... this will probably change seems a little lite in the jetting here ...been to busy in idle to do much here ....ok gets interesting here .....idle mix screw that adjust gas for idle only is turned in all the way in ...basiclly taking this off the table ... it is my opinion this is useless on a oldwing as it is way over rich to begin with ...adding any gas here just makes it worst .....as it is set up and on a oldwing the problem is lack of air to idle not gas in any way .....so to fix this on hooch after many trys ... the primary throttle plate has a 1/8" hole in it to bring in more air at idle in a manifold set up that dose not leak air anywhere ....when this is done and idle mix is close completely ... i can now get idle out of the idle speed screw....witch feeds the idle with the transition holes in idle circuit ....and idle mix screw thats hard to get to anyway and play with is out of the game sending no fuel or very little to idle .....since the jetting is great in idle circuit for off idle snappy response ... hooch will idle and run for long time and just crank revs instantly ....

personally i think this is the deal to dial in dft to oldwing ...i dont care if people disagree ... to me its all about getting this carb to perform on hooch and putting info out to others what path i am taking ....... :thanks: very pleased joedrum

 

[slabghost]

Sounds great except for the rain.

 

[Steve83]

:salute: Here's to you, Joe! Amidst all the discounting and negative talk, the bad weather and the pain, you have done some amazing work here! The trial and error method is the best way to learn anything, and you're getting so close with this - way to go!!!

:clapping: :clapping: :salute: :music: :clapping: arty:

 

[canuckxxxx]

So Joe are you thinking that any air that flows around the edge of the throttle plate will draw in more gas, which you don't want? But a hole in the throttle plate just adds air?

But if you have the idle screw down closed how is it getting gas for idling?

Just trying figure why this is working for you.

 

[joedrum]

canuckxxxx » Sun May 11, 2014 11:52 pm[/url]"uechr1a]
So Joe are you thinking that any air that flows around the edge of the throttle plate will draw in more gas, which you don't want? But a hole in the throttle plate just adds air?

But if you have the idle screw down closed how is it getting gas for idling?

Just trying figure why this is working for you.

ok brian .....the idle circuit consist of 6 holes in the primary barrel .....one is at the mix screw and is the biggest ...then there is 5 holes right inline of the throttle plate where it meets the barrel ...when the idle speed screw is adjusted it actually moves throttle plate from its fully close position and actually dose send gas to the idle circuit and design to do so ...along with idle mix screw setting is the gas supply at idle ...this is all way to much gas for oldwing and way to little air ....in this system idle air comes from the slight opening around the edges of the throttle plate ... this system is just a mismatch to the oldwing motor .....but on the plus side in all other ways the dft is perfect for oldwing ...better than stock carbs IMHO.....

when i shut the idle mix screw gas addition to the idle ......and drill hole in throttle plate on opposite side of plate from the transition holes are ...the oldwing motor is pulling fresh air into idling position without introducing gas along with it ......now that its here i can introduce gas into the system from the transition holes at throttle plate by turning in idle speed screw on throttle linkage to get gas from there ...so brian the idle gas come from here ... the reality is with the hole in the throttle plate lessen the pull around the edges of the plate and cut gas siphoning to an point that between this and the mix screw being completely shut off as one can ... leans the over rich situation in the dft and oldwing match up ...sheesh i hope that understandable....

the hole in the throttle plate acts like and air bleed for the idle circuit ...and actually its a custom mod set up just for oldwing motor application ....

the whole time i have been doing this me and dan have been discussing things ....he seems to think it possible that mix screw seat is damage and this is why i had to go here .. this is possible ...but after it was brought up i looked hard at it ..and could not see such a problem it could cause this super over rich condition ..so i dont think theres anything wrong here ...

it is also very stunning to me that in the end of jetting this carb ...it going to jet out much bigger than the car motors it was used ..witch are mostly bigger motor .... i think this is from the fact that in general the oldwing motor is a 0-10,000 rpm motor and to stay with the motor the jetting has got to be big .... even more so on the hooch motor 1200 that i modified ...

so everyone should take info and analyze it for yourselfs as 1 this carb is the magnum series carb set up from the 32-32 ... so all my jetting is from a more air flow situation in carb difference ...i am not trying to say my way only ...... but the results are hard for me discount at all with hooch

hope this clear up your question brian :thanks:

 

[sgq700]

Ya know Joe, you are on to something important! In the old day's we had to drill the plates of the carbs in our drag race engines as they would load up from being way too rich and did not have enough vacume,you had to turn the idle speed screw so far in that you would move the plate past the idle transition slots and could not adj the mixture on the carb. The 1/8" hole drilled in the plate allowed you to let the plate stay closed and use the idle slots an the carb. mabey these little engines don't have enough vacume at idle? Good thinking Man!!

 

[joedrum]

just to clarify the 32-34 carb i am using is strip of all add on devices ... even choke plates are gone ... only accelerator pump in addition to just strait carb ... one want to look at what ive done this should be consider :thanks:

oh look like i will get test ride in today ... results coming :yahoo:

 

[canuckxxxx]

That makes good sense Joe, thanks. Smart thinking. :good:

Look forward to hearing about test ride. opcorn:

 

[dan filipi]

Joe and I have been going back and forth on this for a while and what to try.
I'm trying to explain this and include references to make it easier to follow.

The reason for going here in the first place is because the off idle jet passage isn't adjustable and it's very obvious for both of us judging by the over rich odor out the exhaust our carbs were running rich at idle even though the idle mix screw is adjusted lean.

Here's the catch:
What is happening and what do you do if it's idling good but too rich, but you can't go leaner because you'll be too lean for a good idle?
I have tried reducing the idle jet from .50 mm to .45 mm to get leaner. I had a hard time getting an idle.
FYI, .05 mm is like splitting a hair down the middle. It's that small.

A clue what's happening after reading the Weber manual Chapter 5 page 29.
Here's a clip of paragraph 6:

Getting enough gas for a burn is one thing, getting enough air for the burn is another.
By introducing bypass air with a hole in the throttle plate, we have added air to the mix.
Air that is needed for a better cleaner burn.
The added air should lean this transition spot.
And it does.


This led us to looking closely at the idle transition circuit.
Close to the idle transition is where the throttle plate spends a lot of it's time while cruising so if we could get better control over this spot (go leaner) then we might increase mpg also.
Worth a shot right.

I drilled a .95 mm hole first and noticed a leaner burn smell right off the bat.
Test ride felt smoother in the transition spot so I went to 1.5 mm.
Test ride smooth and tamed the off idle surge which has made the power come on as a smoother flow.
These things are hard to explain sometimes but I'm saying there is an improvement.
The exhaust odor is certainly much less rich smelling.
The 'pops' out the exhaust when you put your hand over it feel much more even.
My plugs go dark at idle but clean up while riding.
I may try a larger hole.

Joe has drilled a 3 mm hole.
He is running the model carb with a bigger venturi choke.
So far his reports are gleaming with nothing but improvement in idle and smoother power flow.

 

[ekvh]

Does Joe's bike have 1100 cams in it?

 

[dan filipi]

ekvh » Mon May 12, 2014 8:43 am[/url]":3gdp61jc]
Does Joe's bike have 1100 cams in it?

This bike (Hooch) is a 1000 frame with a 1200 engine, 1100 heads, and early 1000 cams.
Jardin exhaust and C5 ignition.