joedrum 83 1100 project

[dan filipi]

the cams i used were from a 75 1000 ....but all the cams from yrs 75-77 have the same grind ....there listed as 371 cams but none of them have that stamped on them ....they didnt start stamping numbers till 78-79 1000 cams there 431 gee i cant remember any way ithink thats right .....

Joe, where are you getting these numbers from?
None of the cams I have say anything like them.
I see R2, R5, maybe an R6. The only 3 digit number is an 1100 cam with 463.
Just trying to figure out how to label these cams to year and engine size.

 

[dan filipi]

i know you come accross a lot of info when looking hard ....and a lot of it is wrong just like opinions ....

Yep, that's why I'm measuring everything and checking against the manuals which themselves have wrong info I'm finding out.

When your looking right at the caliper telling you the numbers that removes all opinion and mis information.
There's way too much of that going around.

 

[dan filipi]

Oh Joe, the extra little hole in the exhaust port has something to do with exhaust gas recirculation.
Honda calls it something else can't remember but I believe that what it does.
That's where the 1200 head had a crack to the coolant jacket on Susies 1200.

 

[joedrum]

yikes !!!!! i call it where a crack happens my my ....why would you send exhaust gas threw something your trying to cool off :nea: :doh: :mrgreen:

 

[dan filipi]

..yea the 1200 heads intakes are for sure smaller and 1200 intakes covered the ports and then step down ......

Boy I'll say! There is a 4 mm difference in port size checked against a 1000 head!

It looks to me like the most bang would come from installing 75-77 heads and cams and carbs on the 1200 and shoehorn that sucker in the 1100 frame. Or if you already have a 1200 runner then move all the goodies over to it.

 

[dan filipi]

yikes !!!!! i call it where a crack happens my my ....why would you send exhast gas threw something your trying to cool off :nea: :doh: :mrgreen:

EPA crap I guess.

 

[dan filipi]

i know you come accross a lot of info when looking hard ....and a lot of it is wrong just like opinions ....as i said ive been though this a lot on another forume ...and i could be wrong on the valve size but there was other good info ..

Do you have a thread going at NGW or Saunders or somewhere I could look at?
I hope NGW.
Got a link?

 

[scdmarx]

yikes !!!!! i call it where a crack happens my my ....why would you send exhast gas threw something your trying to cool off :nea: :doh: :mrgreen:

Recirculating exhaust gas back into the mix actually cools the combustion chamber temps by dilluting the mix with "already burned" gas. This is to reduce NOx emissions produced by high combustion chamber temps and pressures at part throttle cruise. Any time pre-ignition occures (audible or not) cylinder temps & pressures will soar, and this is where the molecules are heated and bonded together to create an entirely new chemical.
Some motors are configured in such a way that without EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) the motor wouldn't last long, and actually self destruct from excessive pre-detonation. Other motors are configured with other methods of dealing with this "piston hammer" and NOx pollution. Like designing the intake to create a certain "swirl" pattern as the gas enters the cylinder, aiding the process of atomization, and help scavenging during the valve overlap, along with computer controlled ignition timing adjustments, and the list goes on..... :heat: And, of course, all this research and developement will cost a bit more. :fiddle:

For awhile, GM had a problem with their 3.8L engines with the composite intake plenum. The EGR passage was right next to a coolant passage, and would eventually burn through. The driver would go out to start the car and the motor wouldn't turn over. Tow the car to the shop and find the motor hydrolocked due to the intake filled with coolant. New plenum and gasket, pull the plugs and crank a few times, change the oil - fill with coolant, and you're good to go.

Design vs Cost vs Federal Highway Funds = job security. :builder: :whistling:

 

[dan filipi]

Interesting stuff about the EGR, I didn't know all that.

 

[scdmarx]

I forgot to mention that combustion chamber temp has to reach 2500 degrees, under enough pressure, for NOx to be produced.
Just to give you some idea of what's going on under that aluminum head. :shock:

 

[joedrum]

yea ron there's all these perfect science reason to come up if the opportunity to have cold coolant to hit very hot exhaust heated heads passage and cracks instantly when you add that disaster pill to the science its dumb science ... i'm sure that's exactly what happen to suzie's bike ....you can not expose that thin a metal to those conditions for dumb reasons of perfect science.....i think im done considering the 1200 head on the 1100 for this reason and others ....i don't want to bring in the danger factor of the electric fuel pump....i like the fact that when the motor stops the gas stops for sure .....if i want to check out a lower rpm cam for the 1100 i can put in the 79 1000 cams i have .....i would have never believed it but the 78-79 1000cams are much milder cams than the stock 1100 cams.....so logically it would be the easiest way to try low rpm torque cam for more grunt and the softness valve train stress setup for a touring geared bike like the 83 is ......

after watching all the video stuff ron put up its dawned on me the whole cycle of trauma that's going on in valve train.....as a drummer i understand the what makes things bonce from a-z you have to....anyway to be short valves bouncing in the seat ,rotating is the total evidence of no tension to keep the valve under control when at its seat allowing it roll like a drumstick .....i'm sure with the trauma seen in the cams and stuff this is going on in the wings ....so in my world there is no new springs and my next move is to take down the the valves check things out ...get some shims that i think will put the proper tension on the valves and reassemble while the heads remain on the bike ....im sure this will up the reliability factor over doing nothing big time

so on the 83 project i'm going to do all the stuff i mention it and still ponder what cam i will go with ....actually it kind of neat that the two 1000 cams are so different to give you this option .......... :mrgreen:

 

[joedrum]

ice ice ice ice ...i'm ice in bad .....but that gave me some time to think and start work on the 83 ....i'm getting good at this its all taken down and ready for the cam switch ...... :builder: :builder: :builder: :mrgreen:

okay guys what cam should i go with the 79 that will add more low end grunt :headscratch:

or the 76 cam that will give me high end grunt :headscratch: any thoughts

 

[dan filipi]

I'd go the 79 since I'll be testing the 1200 cams here as soon as they arrive.
From what I can tell the 1200 cams are mildest of all flat 4's. I wish we lived closer to get a real comparison.

 

[joedrum]

well i've been tearing up some gear specs and it looks like the 83 is going to be slightly lower in fist gear than the stock 1000s and second and third are the same as stock 1000 then forth gear is bump up and fifth too .....

so with this info i'm thinking the 75-77 high end torque cam is what i'm going to do ......if this gearing was good enough for 1000s stock .....it really ought to be good enough with an extra 100cc of motor to the table..... :mrgreen:

i will be iced in so working on the 83 might be about the only thing i can do....working on the doghouse is out of the question.....

:mrgreen:

 

[joedrum]

i'm somewhat disappointed ....once again i'm faced with not being able to put pics up ....with all the ice ...the kids and all there modern phones are gone and i have no way to take pics .....i think santa is trying to set me up this Christmas with my own camera and cord for pic posting :mrgreen: ....but anyway i'm working on this bike today and hoping to get pretty far on it ......

i so much so wanted to do the pics as i was going to go threw the whole belt change deal in such a way that it would be hard to mess up ......

darn pics :rant: :mischief: :rant: :mischief: :Awe: :cheeky: :help: im iced in :mrgreen: acutally i like it :smilie_happy: :hihihi: :ahem: :mrgreen:

 

[scdmarx]

im somewhat disappointed ....once again im faced with not being able to put pics up ....with all the ice ...the kids and all there moderin phones are gone and i have no way to take pics .....:

Well, dadgummit Joe! oh2:

 

[joedrum]

well i figure out one thing why the 83 didn't run well .... :rant: :mischief: :cheeky: :Awe: :nea: :headscratch: it like a lot of other wings is one tooth off on the right side.....what a huge common problem this is ....i cant believe it ran like this as good as it did .....its very possible it jump timing one tooth on impact when it was wreck ....ive had that happen to me before on the mongrel but it would not run till i figure it out and fixed it .....but this bike was running ....

you sure wouldn't want to get the timing one tooth off with a 75-771000 cam i'm sure it would hit and take out valves..... :mrgreen:

i'm taking the 76 cams out of there heads right now ...inside where its warm.....one big plus to working on frozen ground ....its just like concrete you not going to loose anything in the dirt :smilie_happy: :smilie_happy: :mrgreen:

 

[dan filipi]

I highly doubt an impact would make it jump a tooth without having more damage to get that way like a damaged pulley. More likely the belt was installed one tooth off.

 

[joedrum]

yea dan there is evidence that s it might of happen that way .....there's a tiny chunk of back timing cover piece missing ...well not missing anymore i found it ....that doesn't mean it jump though ....old hack always complain of it running right ....most just don't understand that you can not proper spring pressure tha t idler pulley ....which is none almost ....with the valves under pressure ....its out of sequence that .....the belts need to be put on in and timed in there relaxed position and idlers tension with the spring tension they have ....and then valve pressure dial in .....no special tools just things in a proper order.....

i couldn't believe how over torque things were ....i was holding my breath the whole time :mrgreen:

 

[joedrum]

well i took the 76 cams out of there heads....its amazing the story things tell if one looks ...everything means something.....these heads are in tip top shape .....they must be really be low mileage low mileage ....

the cams look great and its obvious from the wear pattern that the rockers were riding the cam all the way around ....these heads are the ones i want to use on the 1200 project the springs are obviously good......

by looking at the cams real close i can see that the biggest thing that the honda cams suffer is from chatter marks in the milling process ....running the metal machines to fast as in travel to cut clean or forcing the cutter to cut faster than it can ......so i will polish the the cams up some and install in the 83 ....

a good day for as cold as it is .....install tomorrow :mrgreen: