Shifting without clutch?

[AlaskaWing]

I need to get a new helmet...every time I try to take a drink, the coffee runs off the face mask of my helmet.

I am pretty pleased with the spot just between the handlebars and the Vetter cowling that will conveniently hold a 20oz. cup of Latte though.

 

[Romans8]

Resurrecting an old thread - I've been enjoying a new-to-me GL1200 for a few months now. It runs very smoothly and starts up perfectly every time. The biggest issue I'm having with it is grindy shifting. I have always used the clutch every shift on motorcycles and continue to do this on my GL1200. Probably about half of the up-shifts in the first 3 gears end up not very smooth. I've asked about this in another thread a few weeks back and replies mainly just said to keep riding it and it will hopefully smooth out.

It feels like the gears bounce off of each other briefly before sinking into gear. It doesn't happen on every shift, but fairly often. I've ridden motorcycles for many years and on many different bikes, but this is the first time I've experienced this.

I'm bringing back this old thread about clutchless shifting, because I had a friend ride the GL1200 and asked his thoughts afterward. I did not mention anything to him about the grindy shifting before he rode it so as not to make him sensitive to it beforehand. He is a very experienced rider and a very bright engineer for a large nascar team.

I asked him his thoughts after he rode the Goldwing and he said he loved it. He couldn't believe how smooth the engine was for as old as it was. When I asked if he noticed any issues with shifts, he said not at all, but he didn't use the clutch on upshifts as he never does. He said it was smooth sailing on all his shifts.

So, I tried clutchless shifting for the first time and it shifts beautifully every time. No grinding or clunking. Just quick and clean. Any thoughts as to why I might have issues while using the clutch, but not at all without the clutch?

 

[Randy Yocum]

I ride a very nice 1975 GL 1000 that I restored last year,I to had difficulty getting clean shifts in the upper gears,so I switched to clutch less shifting and if done right ,you get a perfect smooth shift every time.

 

[derrick woods]

Only time I use the clutch is starting off and 1st to 2nd all other gears I let off throttle briefly and shift

 

[dan filipi]

I never could get clutches shifting down to the point I didn't have to think about it. Using the clutch I could always bang through the gears no problem.

 

[Romans8]

Thanks for the replies guys. I love the smoothness of the engine, and am super impressed with how smoothly this thing runs after all these years. I wish the gearbox was a little crisper, but for the $750 total I have into this bike, I think I can just ride away and keep working on my shift technique. I am definitely getting better shifts by pre-loading the shift lever a little and timing things just right. Never had a bike that needed so much attention to get decent shifts, and I've ridden some old beater bikes haha.

 

[derrick woods]

It's very possible that the water pump may have been changed and they put a little too thin a gasket on the transmission cover sometimes that will cause shifting problems. just a thought

 

[Romans8]

It's very possible that the water pump may have been changed and they put a little too thin a gasket on the transmission cover sometimes that will cause shifting problems. just a thought

interesting...

 

[derrick woods]

interesting...

Yeah some of the aftermarket trans cover gaskets are just a tiny bit thinner and they cause shift linkage binding. Not saying that's what's wrong but it is very possible I've seen it a lot especially with the cheaper gaskets

 

[julimike54]

Yeah some of the aftermarket trans cover gaskets are just a tiny bit thinner and they cause shift linkage binding. Not saying that's what's wrong but it is very possible I've seen it a lot especially with the cheaper gaskets

The gasket kit I used was K&P (15-4353), I guess K&P was bought up by K&L cause I found this with same part number but can find K&P on ebay with the part number.....

https://www.partzilla.com/product/aftermarket/1Q71-K-L-SUPPLY-15-4353

 

[derrick woods]

The gasket kit I used was K&P (15-4353), I guess K&P was bought up by K&L cause I found this with same part number but can find K&P on ebay with the part number.....

https://www.partzilla.com/product/aftermarket/1Q71-K-L-SUPPLY-15-4353

You shouldn't have any problems with that set I use those there in spec with factory what weight oil are you using that can make a difference in shifting too I use rotella

 

[GTC@MSAC]

Occasionally I will find "high neutral" (false neutral between the 2 top gears) on any of my Hondas when I shift without declutching. This includes everything I've had from my 1964 CA95 to my 1981 GL1100, lol!

 

[85goldwing]

Romans depending upon what year your 1200 is, it could be the tyranny gears themselves. I believe that the gl1200 switched to helical cut gears in the tyranny between 85 and 86. I own a 85 and I rarely use clutch for upshifts between 2 to 3rd or up to other higher gears. Hope this helps

 

[DaveO430]

Romans depending upon what year your 1200 is, it could be the tyranny gears themselves. I believe that the gl1200 switched to helical cut gears in the tyranny between 85 and 86. I own a 85 and I rarely use clutch for upshifts between 2 to 3rd or up to other higher gears. Hope this helps

That doesn't matter, the gears are in mesh all the time, it's the sliders that do the shifting.

 

[85goldwing]

Respectfully Dave you're wrong I own an 85 my riding body a 86 which changed to the helicail cut gears.they shifted very different. the sliders are the same but the gear enmeshment or how they slide together is significantly different from one year to the next otherwise why would Honda have changed them. Helical cut gears are more expensive to manufacture. Honda back then, as I would guess toady, is not in the habit changing what works without due cause.

 

[DaveO430]

Have you ever acually worked on a transmission?

 

[85goldwing]

Have you ever riden a 85 and 86 goldwing? And yes. After rebuilding my 71 honda from split cases, the same with my 75 kawy f11 dirt bike and the 88 Honda hawk gt with a .030 overbore. I do have some experience with rebuilding engines and transmissions also.

 

[DaveO430]

Then you should be able to see how the cut of the gears has no effect on the shifting.

 

[joedrum]

My my ...I've had all these motors ..my opinion is strait cut gears Honda did Is the biggest reason these oldwing motors lasted so long ..helical CUT GEARS tear up cases ...the hooch Bile first motor was a 86 1200 short block and I remember it shifting rather smooth ..but eventually it shifted like crap ..the trans basically tore the case up with power hooch had ..replaced it with a 84 motor gearing was just bit taller and it really maxed out the clutch witch only had 10,000 miles on it ..bike still runs like the monster it is ..