Hooch breaks a belt...

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joedrum":3kp3ta36 said:
I had custom timing covers but they were made to fit the 86 motor ...the 84 motor was entirely different and they wouldn’t fit ..so I have none now ...and yes if I had some 84 84 covers I’d be using them ...sheesh went from having dam near all parts to no parts at all ...

My mother has had 2 heart attacks in last three days so we are dealing with that

Family first, bike second. I don’t disagree at all. I hope things get better soon, man. You’re going through hell it seems like.


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[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=210551#p210551:37a3oi0f said:
Steve83 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:53 am[/url]":37a3oi0f]
Sorry 'bout all your problems, Joe. If I may offer a friendly suggestion...put the belt covers on. If even a pebble gets kicked up into a pulley, the belt will likely snap, as they don't stretch.

Oh, I like your towing rig!
+1 on the engine covers protecting the belts and tensioners from rain and road grime.
 
[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=210555#p210555:22jv7tmc said:
joedrum » Yesterday, 3:22 pm[/url]":22jv7tmc]
I had custom timing covers but they were made to fit the 86 motor ...the 84 motor was entirely different and they wouldn’t fit ..so I have none now ...and yes if I had some 84 84 covers I’d be using them ...sheesh went from having dam near all parts to no parts at all ...

My mother has had 2 heart attacks in last three days so we are dealing with that

Damn. :( Is she doing better?
 
Hmmmmmm I do have a option here I havnt talk about ..something I almost did years ago ...I have two 1200 heads that are in fine shape that came with the 1200 motor ...I could put the 75 cams in them with the igniting stem and mod a way to mount the c5 to the 1200 head ...I did this once before and rigged a dyna ignition set to the 1200 heads and this was how I figure out the valves would hit on 1200 motors and 75 cams ...but that won’t happen now at all pistons are notched ...
 
joedrum":n0wa90kz said:
Hmmmmmm I do have a option here I havnt talk about ..something I almost did years ago ...I have two 1200 heads that are in fine shape that came with the 1200 motor ...I could put the 75 cams in them with the igniting stem and mod a way to mount the c5 to the 1200 head ...I did this once before and rigged a dyna ignition set to the 1200 heads and this was how I figure out the valves would hit on 1200 motors and 75 cams ...but that won’t happen now at all pistons are notched ...

It sounds like you have the beginnings of a really good plan!


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Pics
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The 1200 heads I have

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Hoping the c5 cover has meat to drill into where the 1200 cap cover bolts are at ..that would be nice ...also hope the lash adjusters can handle the aggressive 75 cam profile ....as for the smaller ports on the intake valve ...might be a downer but it’s not very far from the combustion chamber ...just 90 degree swoop less than 3” id say ....I have the valve covers ...just need to get 1200 timing belt covers ....this will be another first I’m sure ...man the gambles ..I’m thinking the heads have right at 10000 miles on them so they are fresh and certainly a good gamble in that way of looking at it ....hopefully carb set up won’t have to change much ...I’m open to opinions on what you might think on the gamble here of 75 cams working in the 1200 lash adjuster heads ? :Egyptian:
 
Little late chiming in - I’ve hooked a lot of motorcycles in my repo days, both of these are mine. That’s one hell of a strap job bubba! Hope you get yours back on the road soon!
Nate

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joedrum":2jc3swzd said:
Lol thanks Nate ...coming from you that’s quite the compliment ....

More than welcome - Impressive none the less ha!
Nate


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Early cams in 1200 hydro heads hasn't been done to my knowledge. Will be interesting.
The 1200 cam lobe profiles are more rounded, we suspected way back this was done to work with the hydro adjusters, only a guess.
What little I know about these self adjusters, and my experiences with them, I think this combination might be a problem. I hope I'm wrong.
 
Yes we talked this yrs ago when I was trying it ...well I had the guts then to try it ...it’s a matter of if the c5 will adapt to head ..may try and figure that out today....I’m thinking with 75-77 cams longer duration it probably the best cams to try in 1200 heads ..smoother at the peaks of cam lobe ...
 
Not trying to stop you because it probably can be done. I tried it last summer and couldn’t figure out how and bent a few valves trying. It’s well above my pay grade. There are a few differences in the set up which are not easily seen with the hydraulic adjuster setup. I pocketed the crap out of both intake and exhaust. Still hit.

I’ve still been wondering if adjustable cam gears would permit using them.

The lift you get from early cams is huge and probably too much. The rocker ratio of the 1200 is greater than the 1000/1100. The stock valve lift (not cam lift) of the 1200 is nearly the same as the early cams because of this.
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To my untrained eye, the cams appear to fit fine.

I tried all the combinations of moving the belts a tooth or two or three forward and retard, and I could get it to run, but not on all cylinders- no power. I had my homemade adjustable cam gears and still couldn’t get it.

The other very big difference is the distance between the rocker shafts. The 1200 is quite a bit closer together.
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1000 head spindle spacing
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1200 head spindle spacing
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Don’t go by my pics, the camera is at different distances, the 1000 spindles are wider set than the 1200 spindles. I think that is the biggest rub.

I will say, when I got it to run, turn over first , it was with the left cam ahead of the timing marks and the right cam behind the marks. When you look at the fact the cam is now closer to the centerline, it makes sense.

My head is spinning trying to remember and understand it.

My latest wild hair is finding a set of adjustable cam gears from Honda D16A1 car engine. I believe it is a 40 tooth and has the right diameter for the cam. Not sure on keyway.

If I try it again, I will pay someone to help measure openings and closings of valves in respect to crank. My gut tells me it’s a no-go.

A competent mathematician/engine builder could probably answer this, not me.

I almost forgot, the other important fact is with stock valve springs, they will bind. With everything torqued down, i can’t remember, but I don’t think it will even turn over. I’m pretty sure they will break. I did my other attempts using some from a cb750. They make higher lift springs for the 750, but probably weren’t the strong enough. I had an extra washer under each. If it could be found to time it to use these, custom springs or a crossover set of springs would be needed.

In my opinion, the fastest way forward is to put the 1200 heads on. You might be surprised at how well it performs with your carb setup.

Good luck, let me know if I can help.
 
I forgot, you have to have C5 or ignition source. I tried 1100 cams in the 1200’s as well. Same issues.

I run mine from the crank. I had my crank bolt drilled and tapped to accept a bolt. Then built a plate to stand in front of crank pulleys. PITA for changing belts because it has to come off as does radiator. Very doable for you.
 
Hmmmmmm this is something to consider....hmmm let me think on the fly here ...ok rockers are closer ....looks like one could put early cam in one head and other head still have 1200 cam in it ..then one could move cam to the free play spot ....and check where the timing marks are at and the difference would be easy to see ...this boggles my mind a bit ...when I did this on a stock 1200 motor with no piston relief at all it seemed to barely hit ...hmmm if rocker shafts are shorter on both ends it would not push the valve further at all I’m thinking ..seems your picture is said to be a 1200 rocker in a 1000 head for sure that would not work at all....and timing would be different...sheesh need that cam profile measurements chart that used to be available...seems the internet wipe out a shit load of technical info over the yrs ..can’t find that anywhere anymore ...but it can be determined by smart hands people like me ...with the describe method I mentioned already ...the way I remember things was ..it seemed when I squeeze all the oil out of the lash adjusters nothing hit ...I’ll have to go on the fact that I’m thinking this will work ...should be able to check all this before putting on motor as describe...back timing plates are on the heads and should be easy to figure out ...thanks Eric for your post chiming in ..

I used to have a 67 SS 396 with 375 hp and solid lifter cams all stock ..two speed power glide that car was bad ass ....but yrs later some speed guys figure out that the lesser oval port heads as oppose to the rectangular large port heads my car had would make more power ...so I’m thinking this might be the case with 1200 heads being used maybe ....we will see how it comes out when a get to trying the cams ...and also how easy switching the c5 is .....

A good early head is what I need a 1000 or 1100 and I know that works for sure ..hmmmm
 
Rockers are not shorter on both ends. Almost the same. Look at first pic. The 1000 looks longer because it has the adjuster screw on it, but the pads which ride on the valve stems are nearly the same length from the pivot point. The 1200 has a considerable mechanical advantage.
Your belt snapping was unfortunate for you, but because of this I was out looking at mine and saw some fraying starting on my belts. I had a set so they’re swapped now. I don’t need that.
 
Hmmmmm if that so Eric this makes the cams more aggressive than in 1000 heads ...hmmmm that’s just what I need more power ...sheesh ...I don’t know where people go ...my bike is more powerful than the clutch can handle period ....as stated it will be easy to see if this will work out ...I’m pretty hard to fool ...so it will either work or not ...I’m thinking degrees on one tooth is 9 degrees ..if it all gets to crazy I’ll just get another head ...I’ve ridden both 1200s stock 84 standard and hooch ...there no comparison at all ...hooch has major power over a stock 1200 so I’m not going there at all ..I’d have to mill a stem in the cam for it to work ....for lesser power ....
 
Sometimes it’s best to stick with a proven thing. You’ve put a lot of work into your bike, and it would be a shame to walk away from the custom work you’ve done.


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[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=210759#p210759:244e0agc said:
Daeouse » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:28 am[/url]":244e0agc]
Sometimes it’s best to stick with a proven thing. You’ve put a lot of work into your bike, and it would be a shame to walk away from the custom work you’ve done.


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So true ... i modded three bikes in steps getting to hooch bike over years of work ...everyone of those bikes were said by gurus would never work ..every one did work ...the mongrel witch I change to have 1100 swing arm ...those parts are on hooch bike today with a 1200 swing arm on hooch ....the angry dresser was a 83 dresser 1100 with early cams and 76 1000 carb rack ..it was a total success and very fast ...the 82-84 mated the 82 bike and all its standard wiring to 84 1200 motor ..just switch out the rear ignition...a product of a conversation between me and Dan ...our forum leader at classic ...then hooch bike and all the problems that led to SCC carburation and C5 test mule and programmed ignition advance by Paul at C5 ...this all made a bike to date that has more power than clutch ...and I’m sure I’ve put about 50;000 miles on this set up ...yes I’ll stick with it ... :BigGrin:
 
Hell yes, man! It’s impressive when you write down all the work you’ve done. You have a lot of knowledge you’ve built up, sir!


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