Hooch breaks a belt...
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How about now?
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The next move will involve mounting the 1000 cam in 1200 head ...I just don’t see much to keep this from working ..so we will see ..I mean I’ve been here before years ago as said ...at least on the the early 1000 motor and heads there were after market hotter cams ..the early 75-77 motors had piston cut outs deeper than all other oldwing 4s and could except the hotter cams ...I personally never been around a bike that had them ...so once cam is installed I’ll go through spring testing to see if springs collapse to much ...I don’t remember this happening yrs ago ...but it was a long time ago ...if all this passes I will test mount the head on motor for clearance testing ..with the earlier opening an later closing going on there my be some work to the piston tops ...certainly wasn’t much cut out to get the the early heads to work ..and we are obviously getting more cam movment now with 1200 head set up ... I’m thinking that the. Valks out there have these type of hydro heads and seem to run fine and quiet ...I’m also thinking the smaller valves and all and maybe angle difference will be less stress on timing belts over early heads maybe ....obviously there will be more spring pressure though ...hoping to learn a lot today guys ...the way I’ll go about this there will be no valve clashing going on when I fire it up if it gets that far :builder:
Ahh light of the morning and the best time of the day for Florida ...time to work on hooch ..
Ahh light of the morning and the best time of the day for Florida ...time to work on hooch ..
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Pics
1200 cam carrier removed ...
Ok this is why you have to check all info your told on forums ...this is a pic of the 1100 cam carrier bolted to 1200 head ...the rocker shafts are not closer together than 1000 or 1100 heads ...this is an important thing to know to eliminate it from discussion in this mod ... :builder:
Also this pic shows the difference in the cam lobes in the pic of 1000 rocker against 1200 rocker making a false picture of the rocker length difference ...not saying there not a difference yet ..just saying pic is not on level ground to compare ... :builder:
1200 cam carrier removed ...
Ok this is why you have to check all info your told on forums ...this is a pic of the 1100 cam carrier bolted to 1200 head ...the rocker shafts are not closer together than 1000 or 1100 heads ...this is an important thing to know to eliminate it from discussion in this mod ... :builder:
Also this pic shows the difference in the cam lobes in the pic of 1000 rocker against 1200 rocker making a false picture of the rocker length difference ...not saying there not a difference yet ..just saying pic is not on level ground to compare ... :builder:
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Pics
Ok it looks like the difference in the rockers is in the pad length that rides the cam ...because of the hydro head working pads had to be shorten ..this is 1200 pad that rides the cam ...
This is 1100 pads there bigger and can be cause there plenty of room ..but would not work on 1200 cam carrier no clearance ...
Well it’s starting to look that there may not be much or any gain using 1200 heads over 1100 or 1000 heads ...as far as more valve travel ...hmmmmmmmm only a matter of hydro heads and smaller valves and head port ...hmmmm :headscratch:
Ok it looks like the difference in the rockers is in the pad length that rides the cam ...because of the hydro head working pads had to be shorten ..this is 1200 pad that rides the cam ...
This is 1100 pads there bigger and can be cause there plenty of room ..but would not work on 1200 cam carrier no clearance ...
Well it’s starting to look that there may not be much or any gain using 1200 heads over 1100 or 1000 heads ...as far as more valve travel ...hmmmmmmmm only a matter of hydro heads and smaller valves and head port ...hmmmm :headscratch:
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Ok I’m pretty much not going here ...I’ve tested all things ..not seeing any advantaged for doing this really ..the big one is ..it’s hard to give up hand adjustable valves ...going to put the 1200 head back together and pull the 1100 head off hooch and see for sure the inside of motor ... :builder:
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Hmmmmm if it wasn’t for oil feed to the cam carrier you could mount 1100-1000 adjustable valves on 1200 head ...
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Pics...
No damage inside cylinders ...this is great
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On further review it looks like all four valve bent ....
Ok this is pic of chamber side of 1100 below 1200 above ...the exhaust valves appear the same ...the intake valve is just slightly smaller a lot closer in size than I was thinking it was ...hmmm...now to me the only thing different on the 1200 head is the port in the head to induction system hook up ...now this might be huge plus ..it’s less than 3” and closer tom2” at most ...so now I’m wondering if I might go for it and change my mind ...hmmm will mess with things more all parts are on the table now :builder:
No damage inside cylinders ...this is great
On further review it looks like all four valve bent ....
Ok this is pic of chamber side of 1100 below 1200 above ...the exhaust valves appear the same ...the intake valve is just slightly smaller a lot closer in size than I was thinking it was ...hmmm...now to me the only thing different on the 1200 head is the port in the head to induction system hook up ...now this might be huge plus ..it’s less than 3” and closer tom2” at most ...so now I’m wondering if I might go for it and change my mind ...hmmm will mess with things more all parts are on the table now :builder:
For the record, the Valkyrie has solid lifters! Old school hot rod..m
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Wow didn’t know that about valks ... it’s clear to me now ...that it’s not much of a mod to feed the oil to the adjustable valve carriers after inspecting things on both heads..so this option is here to do if. I want ...
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Pic
Ok this early cam installed in 1200 head and adjustable cam carrier mounted to 1200 head ...fits great free movement is huge with adjuster backed all the way off ...makes me relies that the hydro set has resistance built into its design ..a lot in my book of thinking ...witch to me says more belt stress a total discount in my thinking...also it easy to see adjustable rockers fit the valve perfectly...hmmmmm :headscratch:
Ok this early cam installed in 1200 head and adjustable cam carrier mounted to 1200 head ...fits great free movement is huge with adjuster backed all the way off ...makes me relies that the hydro set has resistance built into its design ..a lot in my book of thinking ...witch to me says more belt stress a total discount in my thinking...also it easy to see adjustable rockers fit the valve perfectly...hmmmmm :headscratch:
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Ok got the 1200 head with the 1000 cam and 1100 cam carrier installed ...I will time it and set the valves right and look for any interference I’m expecting none what so ever really ... :builder:
Ok got the 1200 head with the 1000 cam and 1100 cam carrier installed ...I will time it and set the valves right and look for any interference I’m expecting none what so ever really ... :builder:
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Pic
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Ok this is pic of 1200 head 1100 cam carrier 1000 cam ...all timed valves set ..and all things clear ...using the 1100 cam carrier requires using 1000 valve covers ...
There’s really no increase in cam lift or movement of any kind here ...you get slightly smaller valve and Head port ...so now I know all things I wanted to know ...this was all just test fitting ...will I mod the 1200 head so it get oil supply to it to use adjustable valves ..or use 1200 heads and early cams creating more belt stress or get some more heads hmmmm :headscratch: I’ll listen to opinions now if anyone has any
Ok this is pic of 1200 head 1100 cam carrier 1000 cam ...all timed valves set ..and all things clear ...using the 1100 cam carrier requires using 1000 valve covers ...
There’s really no increase in cam lift or movement of any kind here ...you get slightly smaller valve and Head port ...so now I know all things I wanted to know ...this was all just test fitting ...will I mod the 1200 head so it get oil supply to it to use adjustable valves ..or use 1200 heads and early cams creating more belt stress or get some more heads hmmmm :headscratch: I’ll listen to opinions now if anyone has any
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Pic
This pic shows the oil supply on 1100 head ...oil basically comes to the bolt hole in the cam carrier and though here it supplies oil to all three cam carrier-and cam surfaces ...on the 1200 heads I’d have to block off it feed to 1200 cam carrier and then drill this angled hole to hit the oil supply line from the block ..not really all that hard ...seems a threaded plug I guess and a drilled hole .. this concludes my work for the day ...it’s fixing to rain it’s looking like
Seems a lots of facts came out today about 1200 heads ...there actually dam near the same as early head except in operation and port and valve size ...hope all this posting and pics helped in understanding 1200 heads debunk things that were not facts ...now what to do what to do .. there’s a good chance this might be a great upgrade a little Venturi action at the end of some rather long runners ...and it could be a downer also ..so give your opinions if you have one I’m listening to all ..
This pic shows the oil supply on 1100 head ...oil basically comes to the bolt hole in the cam carrier and though here it supplies oil to all three cam carrier-and cam surfaces ...on the 1200 heads I’d have to block off it feed to 1200 cam carrier and then drill this angled hole to hit the oil supply line from the block ..not really all that hard ...seems a threaded plug I guess and a drilled hole .. this concludes my work for the day ...it’s fixing to rain it’s looking like
Seems a lots of facts came out today about 1200 heads ...there actually dam near the same as early head except in operation and port and valve size ...hope all this posting and pics helped in understanding 1200 heads debunk things that were not facts ...now what to do what to do .. there’s a good chance this might be a great upgrade a little Venturi action at the end of some rather long runners ...and it could be a downer also ..so give your opinions if you have one I’m listening to all ..
Build it and do a ride comparison
Just let me know if you need this '79 head.
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[url=https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=210881#p210881:2ap0kp0x said:
What I do know is it bent all 4 valves in the head ..I’m basically just trying and looking at things right now ...
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Today I’ll try and test fit the 1200 head with early cam and 1200 cam carrier to see if this makes a difference...the only pieces I havnt checked yet are the rockers in a north south kind of way ...I know there there shorter in length on the pad cam side ..but this seems to be in length past where it rides on the cam ...now we know the rocker shafts are the Same...if the fixed rocker cam pad or fixed valve rocker pads are lower in depth than where my valve adjusted 1100 carrier set up is now then this would change the lift and movement on the early 1000 cam ...I should be able to figure this all out through measurements
Eric has got lots of experience working on oldwing motors ...a lot ..so I’m not discounting the things he said happen ...true it wasn’t through some of the things he stated but something caused it and I’m wanting to find out for sure exactly what it is ...
It’s very possible there is a cam movement change to be had here ...and I’m going today figure it out...I’ve learn a lot so far and this is the last step amongst a lot of steps to get to the clear facts of everything :builder:
Eric has got lots of experience working on oldwing motors ...a lot ..so I’m not discounting the things he said happen ...true it wasn’t through some of the things he stated but something caused it and I’m wanting to find out for sure exactly what it is ...
It’s very possible there is a cam movement change to be had here ...and I’m going today figure it out...I’ve learn a lot so far and this is the last step amongst a lot of steps to get to the clear facts of everything :builder:
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Pics
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Total spring collapse...on intake valve
Position of intake valve at spring colapse
Pic of exhaust valve at spring colapse
Spring collapse at exhaust valve
Ok I was expecting this no doubt huge movement in valves ..I couldn’t get them to rotate fully so the cam was still not at peak level to come down yet at all ..sheesh ...so the next move here is to put in 1200 cams and check the the lift as compared to early cam in with 1100 cam carrier installed ..to see what I’m dealing with ...in deference’s :builder: obviously without modding the fixed rockers a lot there’s no chance that this works at all :headscratch:
Total spring collapse...on intake valve
Position of intake valve at spring colapse
Pic of exhaust valve at spring colapse
Spring collapse at exhaust valve
Ok I was expecting this no doubt huge movement in valves ..I couldn’t get them to rotate fully so the cam was still not at peak level to come down yet at all ..sheesh ...so the next move here is to put in 1200 cams and check the the lift as compared to early cam in with 1100 cam carrier installed ..to see what I’m dealing with ...in deference’s :builder: obviously without modding the fixed rockers a lot there’s no chance that this works at all :headscratch:
