The "Turd" is down and out(head gaskets & other stuff)

[Terry]

Steve83 » Yesterday, 10:19 pm[/url]":1xoa2o4v]
Firing order? We've all crossed plug wires before... Do NOT work on it when your pissed!! It's too tempting to destroy things!

So true, 1+

 

[mcgovern61]

Last time this happened to me, I had forgotten to put the ground wire back on at the coils.

 

[AApple]

I'm headed out to start checking. Wishes me luckies! :beg:

NONE of the wiring on/to/from the coils was disturbed. I listed above the only wires that were removed. Is it possible something took a doo-doo while the rest of the work was going on? Soitainly...anything is possible. I'm gunna start with the basic stuff that I know might be wrong, and go from there. Eliminate what does work, and eventually, I'll find what ain't werking.... :yes: :hihihi:

 

[slabghost]

probably something to do with the pulse generators or maybe the rotor.

 

[dan filipi]

Kill switch to on?

 

[AApple]

Otay folks...it's RUNNING. Well...not right at the minute, but it will start/run now. Stay wid me, this is gunna get confusing as hell....I think.

So, I get home, pull the cover off the pulse generator, and check the air gap. One side was actually hitting, the other was far closer than I set it. Don't know what happened, or how, but both generator air gaps had closed up. I managed to get a screwdriver up in there, loosen the screws, and put some gap on them. Dint measure it, just opened them up. Cranked on it, annnnnnd.....same thing....sputter/pop, BUT...the pops were louder, and more consistent, so the air gap WAS causing a problem. As a last resort, I remembered a conversation I had with Dan 3 years ago when I was fighting the same fight. He had suggested swapping the primary wires on the coils, in an effort to see if the ignition timing was 180deg off. So, I swapped the wires on the coil. NOT the actual plug wires, the power/primary wires TO the coils. Hit the start switch, and.......VRRRRROOOOM! B :sensored: h fired right up!
I know what yer all sayin...."I TOLD ya the dang plug wires were crossed, dummy!" oh2:
Yeah...several folks said that, but here's the thing. I did NOT move the plug wires side/side....I'm absolutely POSITIVE of this. Besides....my wires have numbered tags on them, and I checked...they are all where they s'posed to be. Also checked them AT the coils, and all four are in the proper locations, according to the service manuals. #4 on far left of left coil, #2 on left terminal of right coil, etc. I also did NOT mess with ANY other wires on the bike, other than the ones I listed earlier. Dint removed any of the plug wires from the coils, dint take any of the other wires off the coils, nuttin.
So...how the HELL did my timing get 180deg out?????

In talking with Dan this evening, we discussed the possibility of putting the pulse generators in the wrong locations on the advance plate(Swapping them from side/side). Not possible...the wiring will not allow it. I looked at the pics I took of the generators on dis-assembly, and upon re-assembly...they are correct.
Before...

GL110020a5

• AApple
• Feb 16, 2016

Pulse gen before

Re-assembled

GL110020a4

• AApple
• Feb 16, 2016

Pulse gen

And, the best pic I could get with the engine in the bike this evening...

GL110020a3

• AApple
• Feb 16, 2016

Pulse gen

No problems here.
Now what? The rotor is pinned to the shaft....no way to get that wrong, BUT...there's a possibility that I put the actual rotor onto the "advancer" assembly wrong. Service manual states to "line up rotor tooth with cutout on advancer".

GL110020a6

• AApple
• Feb 16, 2016

If I somehow got the rotor on wrong, then THAT'S what the problem is/was. I don't feel like removing the engine to see if that is even possible, so I'm going with that for now.....I screwed up, but just don't know for sure WHAT the heck I screwed up. :hihihi:

Anyway, the turd is alive again! I fired it up while talking to Dan on the fone, so I have a witness. :BigGrin:
I'll put all the crap I took off of it tonite back on tomorrow evening. On the bright side, there are NO leaks on it so far. No coolant, or oil. Last time, I had a coolant leak from the water pump as soon as I put coolant in it, but this time all is well.....so far. At least this time I was smart enough to see if it would start/run BEFORE putting EVERYTHING back on the bike, like I did last time. :hihihi:

THANKS for all the info/suggestions/support. :salute:

 

[Omega Man]

Nice! ...but are the tyres holdin airs? :?

~O~

 

[slabghost]

So good to know it runs once more. I was sure it was a pulse gen issue. But maybe it was the rotor which I suppose could be the same thing really. I'm going to have to check with Dan he actually did hear it though.

 

[Steve83]

Ya-hoo! :clapping:

 

[joedrum]

you can get the rotor on 180 degrees out joel ...how do i know ..ive done the same exact thing when i put the 1100 ignition on a 84 1200 motor ..if i remember right the rotor fits just one way ...but the rotor is the same top and bottom ...so you got the rotor previous top ...on the bottom now and the rotor pointing 1/2 circle off now .... :shock: :hihihi:

 

[bronko37]

Way to go Joel. I knew you would sort it out. Sometimes is just best to walk away from it for a day or so.

 

[AApple]

joedrum » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:37 am[/url]":3mxfkg8b]
...so you got the rotor previous top ...on the bottom now and the rotor pointing 1/2 circle off now .... :shock: :hihihi:

That's prolly edzachary what I did, Joe. I did take the rotor off of the assembly to clean it up, and grease the inside so it would move(advance) easily, since the whole thing was so rusty. Never considered it having a top or bottom, but since it IS slotted, that makes perfect sense. :yes: :thanks:

Omega Man » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:00 pm[/url]":3mxfkg8b]
Nice! ...but are the tyres holdin airs? :?

~O~

:cheeky: :cheeky: :cheeky:
As far as I know, I ain't got no holes in them yet.... :smilie_happy:

 

[Denver]

Simplest issue of the smallest electrical detail, :headscratch: will put your fire into water so to speak :roll: glad you got it sorted out :good:

 

[AApple]

AApple » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:47 am[/url]":2w9yepdo]

joedrum » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:37 am[/url]":2w9yepdo]
...so you got the rotor previous top ...on the bottom now and the rotor pointing 1/2 circle off now .... :shock: :hihihi:

That's prolly edzachary what I did, Joe. I did take the rotor off of the assembly to clean it up, and grease the inside so it would move(advance) easily, since the whole thing was so rusty. Never considered it having a top or bottom, but since it IS slotted, that makes perfect sense. :yes: :thanks:

Otay...I'm havin to rethink this...if there is a slot on the rotor, and a pin/keyway on the advancer shaft, it wouldn't matter which direction the rotor went on...the slot and pin locations will not change. The only exception would be IF the rotor has TWO slots. In that case, it could certainly be inserted 180 out. I need to find pics of the dang set-up and see what the heck it looks like... :doh:


Is it possible to install the actual shaft for the ignition rotor in two different positions?

GL26a

• AApple
• Feb 17, 2016

Can this shaft be installed in more than one way?

I know there is a pin on the end of it, but can't remember if the crankshaft end has a slot all the way across, or just in one spot.....

 

[dan filipi]

I have one in front of me and it all looks keyed to only go in one direction.

 

[joedrum]

well i cant remember that far back but it sure can go on 180 degrees out somehow as i did it too ...or my memory is just lying to me ......hmmmm ok it takes two turns of the crank to cycle one cam rotation ...so if crank was moved one turn this would start firing the wrong cylinders ...back for front and front for back thats why its 180 off joel ...must have been what happen to me too ...what you think ... :headscratch:

 

[dan filipi]

I'll have to take a close look at this considering the 180 degree thing......confusing.

 

[AApple]

Kerrect me iffin I'm rong, but....doesn't the shaft that turns the ignition rotor run off of the crankshaft itself?
I see what Joe is saying about having the crank off 180deg when setting the cam belts, but....wouldn't that also create a massive problem with the pistons wanting to occupy the same space as the valves? Or would it.....hhhmmmmm :headscratch: You may be on to something here Joe...
I had the crank on the T1 mark when I timed the cams. This would put the #1 piston at the top of the stroke, whether on compression, or exhaust....the piston is still at TDC. The position of the cam/valves is what gives us either compression, or exhaust as far as the stroke mission on a 4 stroke engine.

I toll ya'll this wuz gunna get confusing.... :smilie_happy: :mrgreen:

Now I gotta look. I'm gunna put the #1 piston on TDC on the compression stroke, and see what crank mark lines up on the case. If it ain't the T1, we've found my issue.....I just don't know how the heck I could've done it like that. The only time I moved the crank this entire time was before putting the belts on, and later, while adjusting the valves.
To be continued.... :whistling:

 

[Denver]

Being out of time on ignition 180, :roll: has no effect on the piston's, & valves timing oh2:

 

[slabghost]

Pretty sure the cam can be 180 out and still clear the valves. In which case correct ignition timing will act really funny.