new to me oldwing 77 1000

[dan filipi]

Here's the 77 wiring diagram of just the coil circuit:

The black/white is the POSITIVE side of the circuit which comes from the kill switch

(click to zoom. If it doesn't zoom right, here's the diagram in the gallery)

Connection to the relay is just inline with that black/white.

1. Connect the ignition feed to post 86. This is the wire coming from the kill switch.

2. Connect the ignition load to post 87. This is the wire going to the coils.

Then post 30 gets the battery hot and post 85 gets a ground.

What I don't know is, in wiring the Dyna does it use a positive wire. That might change things because with points they work the ground and have nothing to do with the positive side.

 

[joedrum]

well basicicly thats what i did ...from key switch is the tigger for the relay 86....from relay power side 87 to coils...30 battery hot ....ground on 85 ...this is making the starter button suspect number one ....sheesh this is going to be night mare with the wires inside the bars sheeesh....im so pissed at this thing

 

[joedrum]

i will have to say that in this set up the way discribed by dan and what i did in no way will have the ballist resistor in operation ...it cant because the ballist is not in the hot relay hook up on the coils ...it would always be running strait hi volts from the seleniod battery starter circut so im still on the fence about this hook up being right and starter button switch is bad :headscratch:

 

[dan filipi]

V and I got it sorted out.

The relay has to connect right at the ballist resistor. If it's connected right after the start switch then it won't crank.

:downarrow:

 

[slabghost]

I've no idea what those black boxes represent but below the black the arrow points to is a ball which I think is a connector where the wires can be relocated. Original removed to trigger the relay and power connected to there from the relay.

 

[backlander]

My lack of experience with older wings is gonna show, but I got to know, so I'm gonna ask, why bother with going thru the resistors anyway since the idea is to get full 12vdc to coils.

 

[dan filipi]

Those black boxes represent a bullet connector.
The black dots represent a splice.

 

[dan filipi]

My lack of experience with older wings is gonna show, but I got to know, so I'm gonna ask, why bother with going thru the resistors anyway since the idea is to get full 12vdc to coils.

If the coils are run without a resistor they will overheat.
The idea behind the mod is to supply full 12 volts TO the resistor which some say will improve spark and performance by bypassing weak links in the stock wiring harness and switches.

 

[joedrum]

the idea is to get 12 volt power to the resistor without losing volts through the switches ....but as discribe above it feeds right into the switches anyway so thats wrong ....im thinking ive got a plan that will work right maybe ...sheesh i need to find a hard job to do ...this simple relay hookup is beating the crap out of me :Awe: :rant: :cheeky: :beer: :sensored: :help: :hihihi:

 

[backlander]

joe, I was nosing around and found that randak says if your 1000 starts but dies when you release the button, it's because of catostrophic ballast failure. Unplug two wires on ballast and check (cold) should read 3 ohms. Anything other than 3 ohm means to replace ballast. No contunuity means replace. Hope this might help. www.randakks.com/TechTip38.htm

 

[dan filipi]

I've been studying the 77 wiring diagram to help out Joe and I don't see how that can be so.
In order for this to happen there has to be a circuit incorporated into the start circuit (button) that supplies power after the ballast resistor. I don't see that in the wiring diagram. At least not for the 75-77 and 80-83.
I'm not challenging anyone, I just don't see it. There's always the possibility the wiring diagrams are wrong I suppose and just trying to help Joe sort this out.
I'm happy to eat my words, someone please point out that bypass circuit.

There is a wire that runs to the "diodes" box on the 75-77. Unless that circuit supplies +12 as a bypass during crank?

 

[backlander]

I know what you mean dan, I just happened to run across that looking up info on ballast and their function, thought it might be an easy test, and possible solution to his problem.

 

[dan filipi]

I found this pic from another post, might help at least get an idea how the relay should hook up.

This diagram does not detail the hookup of the ballast resistor so keep that in mind.
If your coil setup does have a resistor then it needs to be hooked up to prevent overheating the coils.
The resistor would normally be hooked up to "87" before the coils.

#87 needs to be a "normally open" connection meaning with no power to the relay coil #87 would NOT have power.

 

[slabghost]

I've looked at all the Clymer 1000 wiring diagrams but none show the bypass wire to the coils. It might be in the Honda shop manual but mine is for the 1100 only and I've misplaced it. Diagrams show only 3 wires to the start button but there are actually 4 wires at the start button switch. Joe can verify this. I saw it first hand adapting a later model switch assembly to fit the 75.

 

[backlander]

I think I found the bypass circuit Dan. Take a look at this.gallery/image.php?album_id=261&image_id=3998

When pressed, the starter button routes 12vdc to coils via the diode, bypassing the ballast resistor. When button is released the voltage is routed thru the ballast resistor and is reduced to approx 9 volts thereby reducing wear on points and eliminating overheating of coils. So, if the ballast resistor is bad, when the button is released the engine will die. Are we on the right track here?

 

[dan filipi]

Yes Mike, that would bypass it.
So where the hell did these wiring diagrams that don't show that comes from? Sheesh.

 

[joedrum]

yes this confer,s what i was thinking was going on ...what a complete speggetti junction of wiring up the ignition ...this explanes a lot about weak running 1000s out there the hardly produce a spark in the run possition and wont idle good ever ...everyone thinks it there carbs and its just poor ignition setup that 35yrs old plus

 

[backlander]

jumper across that ballast resistor joe and I would bet that she will keep running when you release that button.

 

[dan filipi]

That would tell ya quick if the resistor is bad.

Joe, your intention here is to put a relay on the coils.
Once you get sorted out why it won't keep running, I would be curious if that bypass is even needed to start.
I can confirm for certain the 83 does not have a bypass like the 77 evidently does. I'd be inclined to hook up everything like the 83 is done, relocate the resistor connections to dump straight into the coils bypassing all the extra wiring.

 

[joedrum]

yes thats my plan ...im going to go stock hook up all the way without relay to conferm start button is good then rewire the ballist to coils ...by passing the extra 100feet of wiring and switches :smilie_happy: :evil: :mrgreen: